0001 1 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 2 BEFORE THE 3 TEXAS LOTTERY COMMISSION 4 AUSTIN, TEXAS 5 BINGO ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING 6 7 8 9 10 NOVEMBER 15, 2018 11 10:00 a.m. 12 AT 13 TEXAS LOTTERY COMMISSION 611 East 6th Street 14 Austin, Texas 78701 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Proceedings reported by electronic sound recording; transcript prepared by Verbatim Reporting & Transcription 25 LLC. 0002 1 APPEARANCES 2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS: 3 Kimberly Rogers 4 Will Martin 5 Tommy Duncan 6 Jason Pohl 7 Melodye Green 8 Emile Bourgoyne 9 10 COMMISSION STAFF: 11 Michael P. Farrell, Director 12 Bob Biard, General Counsel 13 PUBLIC: 14 Kimberly L. Kiplin, Attorney 15 Steve Bresnen, Attorney 16 Stephen Fenoglio, Attorney 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0003 1 TABLE OF CONTENTS 2 PAGE I. Call to order . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 II. Roll call . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 4 III Meeting minutes from September 20, 2018 BAC 5 meeting . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 6 IV. Discussion & possible action from workgroup on net proceeds (Melodye) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 7 V. Discussion & possible action on back/deferred rent 8 (Trace) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 9 VI. Discussion & possible action on alternative ways to complete background checks/criminal history 10 (Brian) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36 11 VII. Discussion & possible action on the Charitable Bingo Operations Division Annual Report 12 on Bingo . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 56 13 VIII. Discussion & possible action on pull-tab & event tickets (Emile) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57 14 IX. Discussion & possible action on progressive 15 pull-tabs (Tommy) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 58 16 X. Discussion & possible action on Bingo occasions (Kim) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60 17 XI. Discussion & possible action on auto mail 18 outs/paperwork reductions (Kim) . . . . . . . . 72 19 XII. Discussion & possible action on legislative recommendations from industry . . . . . . . . . 85 20 XIII. Discussion & possible action on webpage for BAC 21 (JD) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 112 22 XIV. Discussion & possible action on any new items . 118 23 XV. Public comment . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . xx 24 XVI. Adjournment . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 133 25 0004 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 AGENDA ITEM I 3 CHAIR ROGERS: Good Morning, ladies and 4 gentlemen. It's 10:00 and I'd like to call this meeting to 5 order, please. If everyone would take their seats. 6 We'll start this meeting off with the pledge 7 of allegiance. If everyone would like to rise please. 8 (Pledges recited) 9 AGENDA ITEM II 10 CHAIR ROGERS: To start off we'll do roll 11 call. My name is Kimberly Rogers. I am the Co-Chair of the 12 Bingo Advisory Committee. I will be sitting in for Trace 13 today. Unfortunately he is under the weather and not able to 14 make it. Kimberly Rogers present. We'll go around the 15 table. Please state your name. 16 MR. MARTIN: Will Martin. 17 MR. DUNCAN: Tommy Duncan. 18 MR. POHL: Jason Pohl. 19 MR. FARRELL: Michael Farrell. 20 MS. GREEN: Melodye Green. 21 MR. BOURGOYNE: Emile Bourgoyne. 22 CHAIR ROGERS: And Michael, I think you have 23 someone else to introduce to us? 24 MR. FARRELL: Please. I'd like to introduce 25 Caroline Williams, wherever she's hiding? 0005 1 MS. WILLIAMS: I'm over here. 2 MR. FARRELL: You're over there? Caroline 3 Williams; she's new to the Bingo Division, she's the 4 Operations Administrator. So I wanted to make sure you knew 5 who she was. 6 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. 7 MR. FARRELL: Thanks. 8 CHAIR ROGERS: Before we move to our first 9 item, I will be calling on public comment after each 10 discussion that we have. If you are from the public and you 11 are speaking, our court reporter does not know your name, so 12 please be sure that you state it very loud and clear for him. 13 AGENDA ITEM III 14 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. First item is our 15 meeting minutes from September 20th, 2018. I'm guessing that 16 everyone maybe you saw them online and looked through them. 17 MR. BOURGOYNE: I move to accept them. 18 CHAIR ROGERS: Move to accept from Emile. Do 19 I have a second? 20 MR. POHL: Second. 21 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. We will accept 22 those. 23 AGENDA ITEM IV 24 MS. ROGERS: Next on the agenda is discussion 25 and possible action from the workgroup on net proceeds, and 0006 1 this was headed by Melodye. Ms. Green. 2 MS. GREEN: Yes. Well, I handed out my little 3 worksheet here. I don't know -- here you go, Mike. 4 MR. FARRELL: Thank you. 5 MS. GREEN: Let me get you one here. I just 6 made up numbers for some hall, and where they had two months 7 positive, two months negative. If you look at the whole year 8 they were positive $4000. But when you go into the first 9 quarter of the next year and you just go back that quarter 10 and three more quarters, they go negative $2000, which would 11 require a waiver. But if you go back as if just four 12 quarters, looking for the past three, you go back six, 13 they're positive $12,000. And there's a big difference here. 14 This is very hard to -- on the way here I was 15 listening to the post office lost $3.2-billion last year. So 16 this is a business, bingo is a business. We don't get free 17 rent. We don't get free electricity. We don't get free 18 water. We don't get free from the distributors. We don't 19 get anything free from them. 20 So, you know, if you go back -- and then if 21 you look at the example for 2017, you look at those four 22 quarters, they're positive $4000 again. But if you look at 23 the second quarter 2017 and go back, you're negative again. 24 It goes up and down. 25 So, you know, what I was asking, and this is 0007 1 one of the things that the Bingo Interest Group talked about, 2 is to -- an organization must have net positive proceeds over 3 a 24-month period instead of a 12-month. 4 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Okay. 5 MS. GREEN: You know, it's a -- it puts the 6 charities in a really bad situation when they're really not 7 in a bad situation. And we have -- I've seen halls go 8 negative. I -- matter of fact, one of mine did. 9 I had a -- we had to remodel some bathrooms, 10 had some expenses come up; we went negative about 2 or 3000, 11 but in my general fund there was $145,000. Not general fund. 12 In my operating capital. So -- and the quarter before that 13 we were positive, so we weren't negative all the way. 14 But -- and if you look at the waiver, I gave 15 you a copy of the waiver. Incredible business plan. This is 16 really intense. 17 CHAIR ROGERS: And difficult. 18 MS. GREEN: It's very difficult. I mean, you 19 know, I know the Lottery has to do a business plan, things 20 like that, but you guys hire a team of highly paid experts to 21 do that. We don't have those at the -- in the charities this 22 is very hard. You have a market analysis for the local 23 economy, projected cash flow, the current -- let's see, a 24 detailed description of the proposed charitable, detailed 25 description of activities, projected goals. Then they have a 0008 1 cashflow analysis for the bingo account going ahead. 2 It's very detailed. Takes a lot of time and a 3 lot of effort to fill this out. If you look at 1 through 11 4 it's quite a bit. 5 So, you know, I'm asking for the -- well, this 6 change here in the net proceeds, which would have to be 7 statutory. But also for the Lottery Commission -- Kim had a 8 really good idea, too. She said, you know, the first waiver 9 that somebody applies for, automatically grant that. 10 Automatically grant that. She said, that -- that's what they 11 used to do, you know, before Alfonzo took over, but 12 automatically grant them their first waiver and see -- let 13 them have a chance to proceed forward and see how it works. 14 CHAIR ROGERS: Now is your suggestion to grant 15 that first waiver and still submit the business plan, 16 everything of that nature, or as in golf you get like a 17 mulligan, you get first waiver and then move on, or what -- 18 MS. GREEN: You know, it would be nice to have 19 to grant the first waiver without this. I mean, the 20 charities do need to -- look, if you're really negative and 21 having a hard time, you're not going to be around anybody -- 22 like Tommy said and Emile, you know, distributors -- after 30 23 days you're on a COD. You don't get a chance to go negative. 24 And if you can't pay rent, the landlord's only going to be 25 able to cover you for so long. Those halls will not be 0009 1 around. 2 But maybe you can look at this waiver, because 3 this is really rough. I mean, you know, maybe have a 4 business plan as in we're going to -- you know, what we did 5 on two of our halls that we're having trouble, we don't have 6 video anymore. We went all paper. Actually, went all paper 7 on three halls, which saved us a lot of money. It was very 8 hard at first, you know, because you lost a lot of customers, 9 but then we had to bring them back. 10 So it would take you more than a year in 11 proceeds and advertising -- because you have to do a lot of 12 advertising now. 13 MS. ROGERS: Uh-huh (affirmative). 14 MS. GREEN: And it is very expensive. So 15 Will, did you -- 16 MS. ROGERS: Yes. 17 MR. MARTIN: I want to ask a question. After 18 you fill -- after you fill all this out and give them all 19 this stuff, who is it that looks over it and says this is a 20 good plan? I hope it's not one of your auditors, but I had a 21 -- I had -- 22 MS. GREEN: Oh, I -- 23 MR. MARTIN: -- two of them arguing in an 24 audit the other day. 25 MR. FARRELL: I'm the final -- 0010 1 MR. MARTIN: Oh, you -- 2 MR. FARRELL: I sign off on the final. 3 MR. MARTIN: Okay. 4 MR. FARRELL: I'm the final guy that signs 5 off. 6 MS. GREEN: And that's hard, too. I mean, I - 7 - you know, you have to be the final guy to sign off on them 8 because that's what it says here. But it's not that they -- 9 it's very subjective. 10 You know, well, this looks good. I think 11 they're going to be okay. Or look at it and say, I don't 12 think they can do this. It's denied. So it's very 13 subjective to where the Lottery, you know, I don't know how 14 you know what's going to happen in the future. 15 You know, right now in Dallas we have a lot of 16 road construction, just horrible road construction 17 everywhere. You know, and we've also had a lot of rain. And 18 you all have had some rain down here, too. And when it's 19 cold, I mean, these people just turn into Eskimos; they won't 20 come out, you know. So if you have a period of really bad 21 weather, you have a period of really bad construction, you 22 know, there can be a lot of things that happen. Or if you 23 have a -- we've had a lot of plumbing problems; our 24 building's, you know, almost as old as I am. That's a lot -- 25 old. 0011 1 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: That's old. 2 MS. GREEN: I know, it really is. You know, 3 I think they're 63 years old. So anyway, we've had a lot of 4 plumbing problems. That can definitely affect your hall. So 5 -- 6 MS. ROGERS: And you talk about going COD. If 7 a charity or a unit has a reserve that they work on, or an 8 account that has a substantial amount in it, they're not 9 going to go COD, because they're -- they're preparing, you 10 know, they always keep that reserve. But not only does this 11 throw a lot of headaches on the charity -- 12 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 13 MS. ROGERS: -- this throws a tremendous fear 14 into these charities. 15 MS. GREEN: It does. 16 MS. ROGERS: You've worked a long time to do 17 something, and it's so cyclical and so up and down -- 18 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 19 MS. ROGERS: -- that you fall into this and 20 you're terrified you're going to lose your license. 21 MS. GREEN: It is. And, you know, Bingo's not 22 -- 23 MS. ROGERS: So I -- 24 MS. GREEN: -- get rich quick either. It's 25 not. 0012 1 MS. ROGERS: I don't know how this assists or 2 helps. Because, like you said, if they're not paying their 3 bills, they're not going to be there anyway. This is 4 business, this is not -- and actually, if I'm -- I could be 5 wrong. The BEA states the license period, but of course this 6 is a -- most units have different license periods. 7 So something getting longer stretch of time 8 would probably assist because this is a rule not Bingo 9 Enabling. It's kind of an offset of the actual Act, isn't 10 it? 11 MS. GREEN: Well, you know, Steve would 12 probably be better to speak about that than I would. 13 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 14 MS. GREEN: Bresnen, because, you know, I 15 think that we are going to have to have some sort of a 16 legislative change to go from 12 months to 24, so I think it 17 is a rule, isn't it, Steve? Or -- 18 MR. BRESNEN: Well, it's a combination, and 19 when it's appropriate I'll -- 20 MR. DUNCAN: Okay. Well Melodye, also you 21 wrote in here that you show it a positive eight, but the way 22 the Lottery assesses the net proceeds it's a negative 2. 23 Does the assessment need to be changed? I mean, how are -- 24 what is the process on there? 25 MS. GREEN: Well, that's what we're asking 0013 1 for. Instead of just going back and looking -- you know, 2 right now they take that one quarter and then go back three, 3 one, two three. 4 MR. BRESNEN: Rolling, uh-huh. 5 MS. GREEN: And, you know, when you have that 6 really good quarter fall-off, you know, bingo is cyclical, 7 you know, so you'll have a good quarter and a bad quarter. 8 So you've got your positive $10,000. When you lose that 9 positive $10,000 and you run into your negative 9, that -- 10 that's what throws you off. 11 If you go back and look -- and pick up those 12 other two quarters or where they said go back and pick up the 13 whole year, because if you look at both years completely they 14 are positive $8000 for both years. 15 MR. BRESNEN: That's why I -- I brought it up. 16 MS. GREEN: But if you go back, you know, just 17 the four quarters, you'd have them filling out a waiver two 18 or three times. 19 CHAIR ROGERS: Because that rolling -- that 20 good one falls off. 21 MS. GREEN: Right. That's what happens. 22 MS. ROGERS: And you're in trouble. 23 MS. GREEN: It is. It is. So I -- that's a 24 problem. I think this -- the waiver is really rough. You 25 know, I -- I don't know if -- I mean, you know, I been in 0014 1 Bingo a while, but this will just really throw me back. 2 MS. ROGERS: So your suggestion is looking at 3 extending the time; going from 12 months to 24 months. 4 MS. GREEN: Extending the time, granting the 5 first waiver automatically. 6 CHAIR ROGERS: Grant the first waiver 7 automatic. 8 MS. GREEN: Grant it -- and, you know, maybe 9 not filling this whole -- maybe changing this something like, 10 what is your plan going forward? You know, to analyze the 11 current market on bingo, I believe that we've paid somebody 12 like fifty, $60,000 to try to do that. They haven't been 13 able to do that yet. It's very hard. 14 CHAIR ROGERS: There's quite a few of us -- 15 quite a few of us in bingo don't have these business degrees 16 and scary, really, business plans. 17 MS. GREEN: Well, I mean, yeah. I -- you 18 know, and you're going to take, you know, some of these 19 smaller charities, I said when she was talking, this is not a 20 get rich quick. Bingo's not a get rich quick. 21 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Unh-unh. 22 MS. GREEN: And these other charities are 23 going to say you know, the heck with this. When I went -- 24 when I pulled this up on the portal, I looked at the forms 25 that we have to fill out; 43. There's 43 forms to fill out 0015 1 just under conductor. 2 And, you know, some of these other -- what, 3 you know, Will is with American Legion. You got some smaller 4 people playing they just look at this and say, unh-unh. It's 5 not worth it. 6 MS. ROGERS: Yeah. 7 MS. GREEN: You know, we've lost -- if you 8 want to look at how many charities we've lost, I had that 9 number last time, it's just a lot; hundreds and hundreds of 10 charities. 11 MS. ROGER: Well, I believe Tommy -- 12 MR. DUNCAN: Well, we spoke about that in 13 three years just out of our office we've lost eight or nine, 14 because these are little fraternal and veteran organizations 15 that can't afford to go hire a bingo attorney to go and fight 16 for them for the waiver situation. 17 MS. GREEN: Right. Right. 18 MR. DUNCAN: I mean, they -- they try to fill 19 it out the best they can. 20 MS. GREEN: Right. 21 MR. MARTIN: It's 59 percent, I think, if my 22 memory serves. 23 MS. GREEN: We've lost a huge amount of 24 charities just because it's just overwhelming. 25 MR. MARTIN: Veterans organizations. 0016 1 MS. GREEN: Well, 43 pieces of paper, and then 2 the -- I mean, I've been five-and-a-half years constant on 3 it, five-and-a-half years. And that's all I do now with my 4 time is just instead of working on bingo it's just, you know 5 -- so anyway, just a little relief, and like I said, granting 6 the first one would be a big help. Big help. 7 CHAIR ROGERS: At this time we'll open it up 8 to public comment on this issue unless there's anyone else on 9 the board that has a comment. Anything else? Is there -- 10 Mr. Bresnen, would you like to comment? 11 MR. BRESNEN: Yes, ma'am. Steve Bresnen, B-r- 12 e-s-n-e-n. Thanks. I don't really -- y'all hear me all 13 right? 14 MS. GREEN: Yeah. 15 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Oh, it's -- 16 MR. BRESNEN: Nobody's ever said they couldn't 17 hear me. 18 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Do you need the 19 microphone, to record? Okay. 20 MR. BRESNEN: Okay, thanks. 21 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: That would be the only 22 reason. 23 MR. BRESNEN: So, first of all, this is 24 exactly the kinda meat, Michael, that we were hoping the BAC 25 would get into. 0017 1 MR. FARRELL: Okay. 2 MR. BRESNEN: And so the Commission and you 3 for working with that process are to be thanked, and we 4 greatly appreciate it. 5 What y'all have discovered by going into this 6 is that there's some statutory impediments to, what I call, 7 opening the collar, and -- but there are also some rules that 8 could be acted upon by the agency that would also open the 9 collars. 10 My recommendation would be is that whatever 11 you can do by rule, start now, because no matter how good we 12 are in the legislative process, realistically we can't get 13 anything effective before September 1st of 2019. So if you 14 start on this rulemaking now, the charities have a much 15 shorter timeframe, usually I'd say six months is probably 16 about the fastest you can get something done in time to go 17 through the whole administrative rule-making process and 18 everything. But that six months is a lot faster for people 19 to be getting relief sooner. 20 And I think with the discretion that we put 21 into the statute for the agency, Michael can look at which 22 way the ship's turning and say, okay, in the meantime, when 23 people come in and they're under water you may be able to 24 say, I can see that this is where the ship's headed, might be 25 where the notice, bring in the Coast Guard -- 0018 1 (Laughter) 2 MR. BRESNEN: That, you know, he could look at 3 it and say, okay, I"m not going to cut those people's 4 throats, because I can see we're headed towards an area where 5 that collar's going to be a little more open. And sorry for 6 the mixed metaphors. 7 The -- in the statute, it talks about the 8 license period, as you pointed out. It doesn't take account 9 for the unit, which is really strange, as I just thought 10 about it, you know, some of the unit members could be 11 shifting funds around and defeating that statute anyway to 12 begin with probably. So that -- that needs to be -- that 13 needs to be thought about. What about the units? 14 I also think -- Steve Fenoglio asked me to 15 talk about this today. We had a discussion about it 16 yesterday with Kim and Tom and other people have had this 17 conversation. That with respect to the capital reserve, and 18 a little history might be helpful to y'all on that. 19 We used to have something y'all remember the 20 dreaded 35 percent rule. 21 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 22 MR. BRESNEN: And there was this long formula, 23 Michael, and then after you deducted all these things, you 24 had to get 35 percent of what the remainder was had to be 25 distributed. Everybody in the legislature thought you were 0019 1 supposed to get 35 percent of your gross to your 2 distribution. So if you're paying 75 percent in prizes, 3 there ain't no -- there is no 35 percent, and it -- people 4 distributed a lot more money than was required by the rule. 5 It was complete, total chaos. 6 So the legislature changed the law to say, 7 number one, you have to make -- you have to have net 8 proceeds, and the definition of net proceeds got nothin' to 9 do with distributions, it's your net. So you're in business. 10 You may be in business and not have distributed a dollar out 11 of your bingo account to your general fund, but you're still 12 profitable. Because you're allowed to keep that retained 13 capital. 14 That -- what we've done now is we've had 15 enough experience under those statutes, we were trying to 16 make everything more business-like. That's why the units 17 were invented so you didn't have five to seven payrolls, five 18 to seven bank accounts, all of that. People could choose to 19 join together and have a single, unified accounting at each 20 place to save money and make it simpler. 21 So we did a lot of things to make it more like 22 a business. And now I think what we've discovered is we 23 weren't quite business-like enough. So if you get -- if 24 you've got -- if you're sitting on a pile of money -- and by 25 the way, when we did that, there was some organizations in 0020 1 the state, there was one of them that had $450,000 in its 2 bingo account. Nobody could justify that, so we called them 3 up, said, why y'all doing that? We're saving for a new 4 building. Well, take the money -- we're getting dinged at 5 the legislature because not enough money's being distributed, 6 so take the money except what you need to run your operation, 7 out of your account and let the -- the bill provided for a 8 phasing of that money out to the account. 9 By the way, the reason they said they weren't 10 doing it is once they put the money in the general fund, 11 everybody wanted to go spend the money for whatever they 12 wanted to spend it for -- 13 MS. GREEN: That's right. 14 MR. BRESNEN: -- instead of using it for the 15 building. You know, I'm like, well, you know, you got your 16 problems, we got ours. 17 So all of this was done in a way that was very 18 reasonable, and at the same time nobody knew what in the hell 19 was going to happen. And so we gave the agency lots of 20 discretion to grant waivers, to take account of hurricanes, 21 et cetera, all the things you've learned about, you know, 22 since you've been here. 23 So we think that the agency has a lot of 24 discretion that it could exercise on the rulemaking front to 25 do some of these things like say if you come in here and 0021 1 you've had pretty good record and it's your first time, 2 whatever, we're going to grant you a waiver. 3 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 4 MR. BRESNEN: Now, whether that's with 5 conditions or whether that's just first time you get a pass, 6 or a mulligan; I love that -- 7 MS. GREEN: Mulligan, yeah. 8 MR. BRESNEN: -- golfing analogy. It's going 9 to be 65 today. If you're a golfer, it'd be a great day to 10 be out there. 11 So things like that I think definitely ought 12 to be considered, but that's at the exercise of the 13 discretion that I think you can do by rule. 14 This 24 months that we've got in here is just 15 opening the collar. There's no sex appeal to it. There's 16 nothing, you know, hidden or mysterious or even accounting 17 based in it. It's just to back off and let you exercise your 18 discretion. And the agen -- and the organization's 19 realizing, you know, hopefully people will realize that after 20 12 months if they're underwater, that -- that they're going 21 to have to do something. They're going to have to, you know, 22 cut payroll, cut rent, cut -- 23 MS. GREEN: Yeah. Yeah. 24 MR. BRESNEN: -- do whatever they need to do 25 to get back in their good graces. If they've done everything 0022 1 that they can do and it's all right and they're still sitting 2 on a pile of money at the end of it, why would we cut their 3 throats? 4 You know, we don't cut Walmart's throat if it 5 loses money in a quarter or year. So -- has Walmart ever 6 lost money? That's something to think about. 7 Anyway, you get my drift. So I would very 8 sincerely request that with the item in red on net proceeds, 9 it's a simple thing that if we can just open the collar a 10 little bit. If there's something else we need to do 11 statutorily, like -- and I do think on net proceeds if you're 12 going to be able to count all or part of your capital reserve 13 to help you out of the ditch on net proceeds, I do think we 14 may need to amend the statute on that. 15 MS. GREEN: Right. Right. 16 MR. BRESNEN: And I'd like for the staff betwe 17 -- sometime between now and the legislative session, to be 18 thinking about whether -- if -- if you all support that 19 approach, that we -- that we will make that change during the 20 legislature. 21 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 22 MR. BRESNEN: So anyway, unless you all got 23 any questions, that's all I've got to say about net proceeds. 24 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. 25 MR. BRESNEN: And I hope that was useful. 0023 1 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 2 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. 3 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Very. 4 MR. BRESNEN: Thank you, all. Appreciate you. 5 CHAIR ROGERS: My comment is, yeah, we have to 6 -- we're here to help the charities. 7 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 8 MS. ROGERS: We're here for them to make 9 money. We can't all of a sudden if they have a bad time 10 holding them down. Which I don't think staff wants do to 11 that either. 12 MS. GREEN: No. 13 MS. ROGERS: Michael, do we need to -- is 14 there a staff member that we can work with on this? 15 MR. FARRELL: Well, I think you need to -- 16 what you need to come out of the meeting with what you want, 17 and then submit it to the Commission, and the Commission will 18 -- will get it to us and we'll look at it that way. 19 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. And we have another 20 public member who'd like to speak. 21 MR. FENOGLIO: Yes. 22 MS. GREEN: Oh, no. 23 MS. ROGERS: Mr. Fenoglio. 24 MR. FENOGLIO: Yes. Madam Chair, Stephen 25 Fenoglio, attorney in Austin, and I visited with Melodye 0024 1 about this, and you. 2 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 3 MR. FENOGLIO: And it seems to me the two-year 4 may or may not help, but it's a good start. 5 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 6 MR. FENOGLIO: If you look at any -- and I 7 represent a lot of small business members in real estate 8 business, et cetera, oil and gas, they have good years and 9 they have bad. No one makes a profit every year. A few do. 10 Even the hedge guys funds lose money. 11 So we've explored the idea of including a 12 working capital with it. Businesses, every business, 13 including charitable bingo halls, Michael, have a working 14 capital allowance. And so, if you -- if it's a mature hall, 15 some of them will have a $250,000; 50,000 per charity under 16 the rule provisions and statute allow that. 17 Well, if you've got -- not all are 18 commercially run halls, and when I say commercially run, I 19 mean a hall with five charities that's running pretty well 20 seven days a week, maybe six days a week, usually 750 or so 21 sessions or more. They'll have a working capital allowance 22 typically above 100,000. 23 Well, if they hit a bump in the road, road 24 relocation is a huge problem. 25 MS. GREEN: It is. 0025 1 MR. FENOGLIO: We all struggle with Austin 2 traffic. 3 MS. GREEN: Right. You do. 4 MR. FENOGLIO: Every day. And so if they hit 5 a bump in the road on that, or hurricanes in the coastal 6 areas, then they're going to draw on their working capital. 7 Well, why can't you consider that as a part 8 of? And that -- that's going to require a legislative change 9 of the Bingo Enabling Act, 2001.451(g), (h) and (j), are at 10 issue there. And but I -- but my request is that we look at 11 an amendment to allow that. 12 It ultimately is going to fall back on you, 13 though, Michael, and you're the guy. 14 MR. FARRELL: Uh-huh (affirmative). 15 MR. FENOGLIO: And in the past, there was an 16 unwritten rule that Phil Sanderson, one of the predecessor 17 directors, had the first time they asked for a waiver, 18 assuming that his auditors hadn't decided there's theft going 19 on, it's going to get granted. And he looked kindly on the 20 second one, but he started looking closer, and that seems to 21 me that's the rule if they have a -- if they're operating 22 their business as they should. And that's going to take some 23 investigation by you and your staff, obviously. 24 But in the overall scheme of things, no 25 business is going to make each and every year -- I say no 0026 1 business -- many businesses do not. It's cyclical. It's -- 2 that's -- farmers. And I've got a lot of farmer family 3 members, one out of five years is what they're looking for. 4 Because that one out of five years they hit the grand slam 5 home run. Two years they're going to lose money, sometimes 6 substantial money, and another two years maybe they break 7 even. So that's what -- it seems to we need to look at from 8 the standpoint of running bingo as the business that it is. 9 Be happy to answer any questions. 10 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Anyone have 11 questions? No. Anyone else in the public who would like to 12 make a comment? Okay. 13 So at this time, Melodye, we need to come up 14 with a plan as to what we want to put in there, and ask -- 15 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 16 MS. ROGERS: -- the Commissioners at their 17 meeting this is what we would like to see. 18 MS. GREEN: Right. 19 CHAIR ROGERS: So with all of that what do 20 y'all gather we'd like to ask for? So one, extending the 21 time period? 22 MS. GREEN: Yes. Yeah. Go from the 12 to 24 23 months just to -- so you don't have to have it, but you have 24 an option to do it. So -- and then I think we should -- 25 MR. BOURGOYNE: Minimize this waiver for them. 0027 1 MS. GREEN: Yeah, look at this credible 2 business plan, and what needs to be in the credible business 3 plan -- 4 CHAIR ROGERS: Well, let's talk -- first 5 wouldn't we like to ask for the first time that they did this 6 -- 7 MS. GREEN: First time waiver. First time 8 waiver. 9 CHAIR ROGERS: First time waiver. 10 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 11 MR. DUNCAN: You should consider the money in 12 the bank, probably. 13 MS. GREEN: The operating capital. Yeah. 14 It's very unclear what you can use that for, or, you know. 15 MR. POHL: Maybe that's all they need to file 16 with -- for their request. 17 CHAIR ROGERS: Now if I'm correct in 18 understanding, operating capital would be the one that takes 19 legislation. 20 MS. GREEN: It will. I guess. 21 CHAIR ROGERS: The other two would take rule 22 -- would be able to be changed by rule if it's -- 23 MS. GREEN: I don't -- I don't think you can 24 go from 12 to 24. There's no -- that would be legislative 25 but, you know, I'm asking the Commission just to look at 0028 1 that, instead of just looking at, you know, what'd you do for 2 the last four quarters? What have you done in the past? If 3 you have a hall that's been positive, you know, positive for 4 10 years, you know, and they have one bad quarter, that 5 doesn't -- that means you're under construction. 6 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 7 MR. BRESNEN: Madam Chair? 8 MS. GREEN: Yes, sir. 9 MR. BRESNEN: I was just talking with Tyler 10 and I think Steve and I had this conversation once; we're 11 going to look at whether you need a statutory change to deal 12 with the units. 13 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 14 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 15 MR. BRESNEN: For the reason you raised 16 earlier. 17 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 18 MS. ROGERS: Right. So extend the time from 19 12 to 24 months, first time waiver, operate -- 20 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 21 MS. ROGERS: -- look at the operating capital 22 and minimize the forms. 23 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 24 MS. ROGERS: Is that what I'm gathering from 25 everyone? 0029 1 MR. POHL: Pretty much. 2 MR. FARRELL: Well -- 3 MS. ROGERS: Yes, sir. 4 MR. POHL: -- I'm going to add minimize -- 5 which form you want -- you want a minimized form -- 6 MS. GREEN: The very back one, this one -- 7 MR. POHL: Yeah. 8 MS. GREEN: -- right here, the back page. 9 MR. POHL: 119. 10 MS. GREEN: Yeah. 11 MR. FARRELL: Well, yeah, put the form number 12 down. 13 MS. ROGERS: Yes, sir. 14 MR. POHL: Well, it might be 119. 15 MR. FARRELL: Because I don't want to get rid 16 of all those forms for you. 17 MS. GREEN: No, no, no. It took you a long to 18 make them. 19 MS. ROGERS: I'm not asking. 20 MS. GREEN: That's for another day. 21 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Form ID -- 22 MS. ROGERS: We're not going to -- 23 MS. GREEN: Forty-three, what the -- 24 (Laughter) 25 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 0030 1 MR. BRESNEN: May I just add one more 2 question? 3 MS. ROGERS: Yes, Mr. Bresnen. 4 MR. BRESNEN: I swear, I won't -- I swear I 5 won't do this all day. In the parts of the rule now where 6 you've got the like market analysis and all that, are the 7 recommendations considering revising some of those things 8 that are really not realistic -- 9 MS. ROGERS: Yes, sir. 10 MR. BRESNEN: -- for the conductors to do? 11 MS. GREEN: Right. That's what we're talking 12 about. Yeah. 13 MS. ROGERS: That's when I say minimizing the 14 forms. 15 MS. GREEN: Right. 16 MS. ROGERS: And I don't have them here in 17 front of me, y'all do. 18 MR. BRESNEN: We can include that under 19 minimizing the forms. 20 MS. ROGERS: Yes. 21 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 22 MR. POHL: Yes. 23 MS. ROGERS: Does that have a form ID number? 24 MS. GREEN: 119, yeah. 25 MS. ROGERS: That's 1 -- that is 119? 0031 1 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). That's 119. 2 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 3 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Yeah. 4 MR. BRESNEN: Thank you. 5 MS. ROGERS: Yes, sir. 6 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 7 MS. ROGERS: So the general consensus is to go 8 forward with this to ask Commissioners at their next meeting 9 if they would consider this and have staff -- 10 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). Uh-huh 11 (affirmative). 12 MS. ROGERS: -- look into it for us? 13 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 14 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Agreed. 15 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Yeah. 16 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 17 MR. BOURGOYNE: No opposed. 18 MS. ROGERS: I'm sorry? 19 MR. BOURGOYNE: No opposition. 20 MS. ROGERS: No opposition this time. Okay. 21 Very good. 22 AGENDA ITEM V 23 MS. ROGERS: Okay. We will move on to our 24 next item, it's number five, discuss and -- possible action 25 on back deferred rent. This was Trace's and I don't know if 0032 1 he spoke with anyone here about it. Mr. Bresnen, he spoke 2 with you? Would you like to bring that to us? Because I 3 don't have anything to go with on this. 4 MR. BRESNEN: If you don't -- if you don't 5 mind, I -- I won't speak -- 6 MS. ROGERS: Yes, sir. 7 MR. BRESNEN: -- for Trace, because he may 8 have had other ideas about this, too. We did have a meeting 9 of the Bingo Interest Group and I've talked with Trace about 10 this a number of times. I think and we had a meeting with 11 staff. And Steve, I'm going to count on you to correct me if 12 I'm leaving anything out or stating it wrong, but we all 13 agree that the issue of ow back rent, how far back you can 14 go, needs to be addressed by the Commission for the reason 15 that Commission Lowe has spoken about, Michael spoke about. 16 MS. ROGERS: Let me be more specific. 17 MR. BRESNEN: Yeah. 18 MS. ROGERS: Back rent as far as you can go to 19 collect? 20 MR. BRESNEN: Yes. 21 MS. ROGERS: A lessor to collect? 22 MR. BRESNEN: Yes. 23 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 24 MR. BRESNEN: And our view was 90 to 120 days. 25 Am I getting it right, Steve? 0033 1 MR. FENOGLIO: Yes. 2 MR. BRESNEN: Ninety to 120 days and there 3 needs to be documentation of the occasions for which or the 4 period of time for which you're collecting that back or 5 deferred rent. So there's a way for the Division to police 6 that people are within the statutory limits on rent for that 7 period. 8 And rather than -- I think I -- I think we 9 agreed that rather than file amended returns for those 10 periods, it would be better for the Commission to have a form 11 or something, some kind of explanation tendered where you're 12 attributing that rent back to a given occasion or period of 13 time that -- so the Commission can trace it rather than 14 having to deal with a bunch of amended returns, you know, 15 periodically. 16 MS. ROGERS: Because if you're a large hall, 17 that would even throw your quarterly report over and you'd 18 get a call from Mike -- or -- yeah. 19 MR. BRESNEN: Right. So when you file your 20 quarterly report, if it's got rent in it that's in excess of 21 the statutory limits, then you need to attribute it to a 22 period of time in which you did not con -- when you -- and 23 the increment can't have exceeded the statutory limit during 24 the period of time that you're making up. 25 MS. ROGERS: Yes, sir. 0034 1 MR. BRESNEN: I think -- Michael, is that 2 consistent with what we -- 3 MR. FARRELL: I think the -- 4 MR. BRESNEN: -- talked about the other day? 5 MR. FARRELL: Yeah, it was a short -- a 6 relatively -- a fixed period of time so that you could 7 account for it. So it wasn't just kind of a number. 8 MR. BRESNEN: And the reason I'm saying 90 to 9 120 days as I understand it, I'm -- y'all, I'm a policy guy, 10 I'm not a bingo guy really, but as I understand it, it 11 depends on when your -- when you invoice for things. So I 12 think 90 to 120 days is the time period that ought to -- you 13 ought to have the slack. 14 Most of the people that I've talked to in the 15 Bingo Interest Group were like, if I'm not going to get it 16 during that time period, I'm not going to get it. 17 MS. GREEN: Right. 18 MR. BRESNEN: So that -- 19 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Uh-huh (affirmative). 20 MR. BRESNEN: -- a fair summary? 21 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 22 MR. BRESNEN: Okay. And I -- I think Trace 23 would agree with all of that, but -- but he was so sick that 24 we didn't have the opportunity to talk to him and get a 25 report, at least I didn't. 0035 1 MS. ROGERS: Thank you, sir. 2 MR. BRESNEN: Thank you, all. 3 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. 4 MR. BRESNEN: Yes, ma'am. 5 MS. ROGERS: Does anyone have any comment on 6 that? I do agree that there should be a timeframe. It 7 shouldn't just be wide open. 8 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). Right 9 MS. ROGERS: Think of that nature. Anyone 10 else in the public? Ms. Kiplin? 11 MS. KIPLIN: My name's Kimberly Kiplin, I'm an 12 attorney here in town and I do bingo work for various 13 clients. And the only thing I would follow-up on Mr. 14 Bresnen's comment is if the Commission's going to take this 15 up and look at it as an issue, in my view it's an expression 16 of policy and it should be in a promulgated rule where people 17 have an opportunity to comment. 18 I think some of the -- some of the problems 19 that the charities have or others have is that there are 20 decisions that are being made or use of discussions being 21 made on the staff level, and it's not embodied in a 22 promulgated rule and so they don't even know what the rules 23 of the road are. So I would encourage rulemaking on that. 24 MR. BRESNEN: We would agree with that. 25 That's -- we agree with that. 0036 1 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. Like putting out on 2 the website or something of that nature for comment? 3 MS. KIPLIN: I'm talking about proposing a 4 rule in the -- in the Texas Register for public comment, a 5 formal rulemaking where people can come and they can comment. 6 A comment could be I support the rule, but I think it should 7 be a longer look-back period of time. But -- but that's the 8 whole point of -- of interpretation is on statutes and policy 9 making being in a rule so that everybody knows what -- what 10 the rules are. And people want to comply but if they don't 11 know what the rules are, it's hard for them to comply. 12 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Exactly. 13 MS. ROGERS: Exactly. Thank you so much. 14 Thank you. Anyone else have public comment at this time? 15 Anyone on the Board want to comment on this? 16 MS. GREEN: I agree. 17 MS. ROGERS: Okay. I will let Trace know what 18 we spoke about and see if he would like to move forward to 19 ask Commissioners for something on this or just include it on 20 our -- on our summary for them. 21 AGENDA ITEM VI 22 MS. ROGERS: Next item is number 6, discussion 23 and possible action on alternative ways to complete 24 background checks and criminal history. Brian, you were on - 25 - he's not here. 0037 1 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: He's the one that 2 resigned. 3 MS. GREEN: He resigned. 4 MS. ROGERS: He's the one that resigned. 5 Okay. Trace did send me -- 6 MR. DUNCAN: I think he decided on going back 7 to what it was, didn't he? 8 MS. ROGERS: Yeah. 9 MR. DUNCAN: The ten years? 10 MS. ROGERS: So -- 11 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 12 MS. ROGERS: So there were -- 13 MR. DUNCAN: That was his recommendation. 14 MS. ROGERS: There were three choices and 15 everyone was emailed the three ideas that they had. And I 16 believe -- so that would be number two. And that would be 17 amend the BEA license eligibility provisions to reinsert the 18 ten year look back limit on convictions. And I'm sure 19 everyone knows what the rest of it says. 20 That is what everyone here agrees with? 21 MR. DUNCAN: That -- 22 MS. ROGERS: That's what our recommendation to 23 Commissioners would be? 24 MR. BOURGOYNE: There was another part of 25 that. Wasn't there a part about the -- to consider if a 0038 1 person had been convicted of an offense when a person was 2 subject of deferred adjudication? 3 MS. GREEN: Adjudication? 4 MS. ROGERS: I'll -- I'll read the whole 5 thing. 6 MR. BOURGOYNE: Yes. 7 MS. ROGERS: Convictions. So that only a 8 conviction of an enumerated offense, if less than ten years 9 has elapsed since termination of a sentence, parole, 10 mandatory supervision, or community supervision, served for 11 the offense, is a bar to license. 12 MR. BOURGOYNE: But the question is, are we 13 going to include those deferred of adjudication. 14 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Uh-huh (affirmative). 15 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 16 MR. BOURGOYNE: And where the Judge dismissed 17 the proceedings and discharged the person. As I understand 18 it, currently -- 19 MS. ROGERS: Well, if they do -- I'm not a 20 lawyer, but if they do that, then you're technically not 21 convicted, correct? 22 MR. BOURGOYNE: Well -- 23 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Uh-huh (affirmative). 24 MS. ROGERS: Mr. Bresnen or Mr. Fenoglio, 25 could you answer that? 0039 1 MR. BRESNEN: Steve will be better on this 2 issue. 3 MS. ROGERS: Yes, sir. 4 MR. FENOGLIO: This is an interesting question 5 on the interplay of the Code of Criminal procedure -- 6 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 7 MR. FENOGLIO: -- which says that if you've -- 8 pick on my friend Will. If he's convicted of a felony 9 endangerment of a child, and he enters a plea of a 10 misdemeanor deferred adjudication, meaning he goes in front 11 of a judge, I admit I did it, I confess, and the judge says 12 fine, we're going to defer adjudication on that for a year 13 and make sure Will's a good guy. And if at the end of the 14 year, Will hasn't had any bad acts, we're going to erase 15 them. 16 So in criminal law, Will has not been 17 convicted, period, end of sentence. And before the statute 18 was changed in the Bingo Enabling Act, about three sessions 19 ago, that was the law that the Commission went with. Three 20 sessions ago in the Lottery Sunset, the legislature said to 21 the Lottery Commission, apply a different statutory regime 22 called Chapter 53, and you have the ability to consider a 23 deferred adjudication to be the same as a conviction, which 24 would mean Will couldn't be licensed. 25 And so that's where the Commission came down 0040 1 in a rulemaking and said we're going to consider those to be 2 convictions. So if you have that, Will, you can't be 3 involved because notwithstanding the court said you haven't 4 been convicted, we the Agency are going to consider the 5 deferred adjudication to be a conviction. 6 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Yeah. Complicated enough. 7 What we suggest is that the directive be made to the 8 legislature and to the Agency that you do not consider if 9 it's a deferred adjudication, you do not consider that to be 10 a conviction. 11 The Commission can do that by rulemaking 12 today, but my experience is the Commission wants someone at 13 the legislature to say that's okay. That's probably for the 14 Commissioners to decide. 15 MR. BOURGOYNE: I have a question. 16 MR. FENOGLIO: Yes, sir. 17 MR. BOURGOYNE: I'm not familiar with the 18 Texas law as you are, but in Louisiana, we -- this would be 19 an eight -- Article 894 and it could be expunged from their 20 record. Is that true here in Texas? 21 MR. FENOGLIO: Maybe, maybe not. That's a 22 different set of provisions in the Code of Criminal Procedure 23 whether you're entitled to expungement. For certain 24 convictions that are treat -- for certain matters that are 25 deferred adjudication, yes. For certain matters that are 0041 1 treated as deferred adjudication, no. 2 That's beyond the pale I think of this 3 discussion. 4 MR. BOURGOYNE: Okay. 5 MR. FENOGLIO: But for -- but no -- but for -- 6 in any event, for purposes of licensing for that employee, 7 they would not -- that would not be a bar if you treat 8 deferred adjudication as like the Code of Criminal Procedure 9 does, as not -- 10 MR. BOURGOYNE: Not any -- 11 MS. ROGERS: -- being -- 12 MR. BOURGOYNE: Not being convicted. 13 MS. ROGERS: So I have a couple questions for 14 you. During this time period, this year for adjudication, 15 you cannot have any other crimes against you, correct? 16 MR. FENOGLIO: It's laid out in the court 17 order, but yes, generally. I mean, you -- you could have a 18 speeding ticket, for example. 19 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 20 MR. FENOGLIO: But, you know, another -- if 21 he's charged again with the felony endangerment of a child 22 under this hypothetical -- 23 MS. ROGERS: Right. 24 MR. FENOGLIO: And he -- he's -- he's now 25 brought back into court and the court is going to look at 0042 1 that and say, I warned you, you did the same thing, I'm 2 taking that deferred adjudication and I'm converting it to 3 conviction, in which case the Agency would say okay, your -- 4 your license is removed -- if you're on the worker registry, 5 you can no longer work, if you're an officer of the charity, 6 unless you remove yourself, the charity loses its license. 7 Answer your question? 8 MS. ROGERS: Answers my question. And the 9 next thing, the State of Texas -- 10 MR. FENOGLIO: Yes. 11 MS. ROGERS: -- not the legislature, not 12 bingo, the State of Texas, if you fulfill your deferred 13 adjudification (sic) -- however you say that correctly, it is 14 not a conviction? 15 MR. FENOGLIO: That is correct. 16 MS. ROGERS: You're not convicted. 17 MR. FENOGLIO: And during the period that 18 you're being in that deferred adjudication period, it could 19 be one year, could be two years, typically one, you're also 20 not considered, but at the end of that, if you've 21 successfully completed, then that paperwork is effectively 22 torn up, the charge still remains, someone could go to that 23 county and say I want to look at Will Martin's -- 24 MR. BOURGOYNE: Yep, arrest record. 25 MR. FENOGLIO: -- criminal record, arrest 0043 1 record, and the entire court proceeding, and they could see 2 that he was given deferred adjudication and then they could 3 see the final order that says we're relieving you of deferred 4 adjudication, case -- you've never been convicted of 5 anything. But it still remains there. 6 Then the question is, can you expunge that and 7 then that depends on the nature of the charge. And if you 8 get it expunged -- 9 MR. BOURGOYNE: Then nobody can see it. 10 MS. ROGERS: -- then it's gone. 11 MR. BOURGOYNE: And nobody -- 12 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: And nobody -- 13 MR. BOURGOYNE: Nobody can -- 14 MR. FENOGLIO: That's correct. 15 MS. ROGERS: And then I have one more 16 question. If you have this deferred adjudication and you do 17 well and they take it off, five years down the road you get 18 charged again, can they see that? Can the court system see 19 that? 20 MR. FENOGLIO: If it hasn't been expunged -- 21 MR. BOURGOYNE: Expunged, yes. 22 MR. FENOGLIO: -- yes. And even if it has 23 been expunged, under certain circumstances, for certain 24 convictions, that -- the law enforcement can see it. The 25 public cannot. 0044 1 MS. ROGERS: Are they likely to give it again? 2 MR. FENOGLIO: Likely to give what? 3 MS. ROGERS: If they see that you've had this 4 track record and you had it prior? 5 MR. FENOGLIO: If it's the same conviction -- 6 I mean, the same charge, same -- 7 MS. ROGERS: Yes, sir. 8 MR. FENOGLIO: -- basic facts, probably not. 9 You're not going to get it. 10 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 11 MR. FENOGLIO: If it's something that's -- 12 make it up again, Will, sorry, he's now DUI. But the 13 prosecutor's going to look at that and say was the child 14 endangerment, was it involving alcohol? Answer ye -- or 15 drugs. Answer yes. Okay. We're probably not going to give 16 you a deferred on that. 17 MS. ROGERS: Okay. Thank you. 18 MR. FENOGLIO: Yeah. 19 MS. ROGERS: Anyone have ques -- one moment. 20 Anyone have questions for Mr. Fenoglio? No? Okay. Yes, 21 sir. 22 MR. BAKER: I have a question for Steve. 23 MS. ROGERS: Please -- 24 MR. BAKER: I'm Ronnie Baker from Roy Bingo 25 Supply. Being an ex-felony probation officer I've had a lot 0045 1 of bingo halls and you know, I've been in bingo about as long 2 as you have, they've called about this very thing. Weren't 3 there a number of people three years ago that it came up and 4 had a lot of exposure because they -- on the advice of their 5 attorney they'd taken deferred adjudication and it 6 compromised their ability to actually participate in 7 charitable bingo? 8 MR. FENOGLIO: Yes. And what he's suggesting 9 is, and I did this on a couple of clients that got a charge 10 of a gambling nature, that's when eight-liners were rampant, 11 in some cases -- in -- 12 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: They still are. 13 MR. FENOGLIO: -- some situations they still 14 are. But this was in the 2000 timeframe. And so you would 15 work with the prosecutor, maybe they were worker in a game 16 room, and so they agreed to cooperate and they got deferred 17 adjudication. And we would always call the Bingo Division 18 and will a deferred adjudication of a Class A gambling charge 19 be a bar to employment; absolutely not, under the statutory 20 regime we had in place today. Okay. Fine. They took the 21 deal. 22 Then, the statute changed and the Commission 23 initially looked at it and said too bad, the fact that you 24 cut that deal ten years ago is irrelevant, we're going to 25 consider it deferred adjudication for purposes of licensing 0046 1 and you cannot be a bingo worker. 2 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Highly unfair. 3 MR. FENOGLIO: Yeah. But -- because under Sta 4 -- Texas law under like Oklahoma, there's no opportunity to 5 go back in front of the court and say -- under a post 6 conviction relief, and say I want to revisit that issue now 7 that I know I can't work. Oklahoma law you can do that and 8 I've done that with Oklahoma lawyers for other clients. 9 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Makes sense. 10 MS. ROGERS: Thank you, sir. 11 MR. FENOGLIO: Thank you. 12 MS. ROGERS: Yes, sir. Go ahead. 13 MR. VANCE: Yeah, Tyler Vance, I'm an attorney 14 with the Lottery Commission. Steve's mostly right. I just 15 want to make a clarification. 16 The only deferreds that we treat as 17 convictions are gambling, gambling related or fraud. So 18 Chapter 53 only allows you to treat a deferred adjudication 19 as a conviction if that offense, had it been a conviction, 20 would make you ineligible for licensure. 21 So the example of if you get a deferred for 22 DWI or deferred for assault or whatever, we don't do anything 23 on that because we can't. It's only deferreds for gambling, 24 gambling related offenses and fraud, under Penal Code Chapter 25 32. And also, even then, only if you are currently on 0047 1 probation or have only completed probation within the past 2 five years. And then even then it's a mix. So if you have a 3 gambling deferred within the past five years, the Commission 4 may treat it as a conviction and even then, there's a further 5 step if they think that granting you that license is going to 6 give you the opportunity to commit that specific offense 7 again. 8 So we're not just -- just turning down 9 everybody with a deferred, it's a very limited circumstances 10 in which a deferred adjudication can result in ineligibility. 11 So I just wanted to clarify that. That's a pretty narrow 12 range of things. 13 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Thank you. 14 MS. ROGERS: Thank you so much for that. 15 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Thanks. 16 MS. ROGERS: Ms. Kiplin? 17 MS. KIPLIN: Just to follow-up. For the 18 record, Kimberly Kiplin, attorney here in town. 19 So for the -- you asked the question, you 20 know, can you see it if it's a deferred. Here's the issue 21 and I appreciate Mr. Vance's comments. But on -- on these 22 licensing applications, and I'm not limiting it to the 23 Lottery Commission, it'll say have you ever, have you ever 24 been the subject of a deferred, have you ever, you know, pled 25 guilty even if it resulted in a deferred. And so then the 0048 1 person's in the -- in the conundrum of having to answer that 2 truthfully, having to answer that licensing application 3 truthfully or being denied because of a -- of a false 4 statement on an application. So I just want to clear that 5 up. Even if it -- even if it's expunged and, you know, it 6 may -- people may not be able to see it, for licensing 7 purposes and Mr. Fenoglio made this comment, a -- licensing 8 agencies generally have a -- have a different right of access 9 to those documents, but even setting that aside, you're 10 having to answer the question truthfully. 11 So the request, I think, from me would be that 12 the Bingo Advisory Committee recommend to the Lottery 13 Commission in its report, I think it needs to be filed I 14 think it was by December 1, I could be wrong there, so I 15 don't know we'll hit that mark, to amend Chapter 53 of the 16 occupations code to eliminate the treatment of -- that a 17 deferred adjudication can be treated as a conviction, just 18 eliminate it outright. 19 It's not just this licensing agency, it's 20 other licensing agencies that face this issue. You know, 21 electricians, plumbers, people who are trying to make a 22 living that pled on a deferred and now that this change was 23 made in the occupations code, Chapter 53, not the Bingo 24 Enabling Act, found themselves in the same position on -- on 25 a look back when they came up for renewal for a license, 0049 1 notwithstanding the fact that they had practiced that 2 profession without any kind of issues, and had -- and a 3 deferred adjudication was known, now all of a sudden, they 4 can't get the same license that they had the day before. So 5 that's the first request. 6 The second request is to amend the Bingo 7 Enabling Act to reinstate the ten year look back. And that 8 was a limitation on the ability to go beyond ten years from 9 the date the last -- the day the last sentence was served or 10 conviction was served just cap it at ten years. And that's 11 it for me, unless anybody has any questions. 12 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. Anyone have any 13 questions? 14 MR. BIARD: Kim, could I ask you a question? 15 MS. KIPLIN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 16 MR. BIARD: Sorry. This is Bob Biard, General 17 Counsel. I was having trouble remembering, because this -- 18 this happened probably after I became General Counsel. 19 MS. KIPLIN: Oh, that's a very important time 20 then. 21 MR. BIARD: Does that ten year look back that 22 was -- that the legislature took out. 23 MS. KIPLIN: Yeah. 24 MR. BIARD: Did it apply to all the crimes 25 listed that are criminal, fraud, gambling or gambling 0050 1 related? 2 MS. KIPLIN: I interpreted it that way. 3 MR. BIARD: Okay. I just wanted to make sure. 4 MS. KIPLIN: Yeah. No, I interpreted it that 5 way. 6 MR. BIARD: I know it was kind of -- it's kind 7 of written kind of funny. 8 MS. KIPLIN: So that now -- all that went out 9 and now it's a lifetime bar for at least those organizations. 10 MR. BIARD: So -- 11 MS. KIPLIN: But not on regis -- people who 12 are on the Bingo worker registry. 13 MR. BIARD: So if it the ten year look back 14 was reinstated -- 15 MS. KIPLIN: Yeah. 16 MR. BIARD: -- then it would -- it would apply 17 either to crime -- criminal fraud, gambling or gambling 18 related? 19 MS. KIPLIN: That's right. Not -- not a 20 lifetime bar. 21 MR. BIARD: Okay. Great. And I wasn't quite 22 sure what the practice was before 2013. 23 MS. KIPLIN: Well, I -- I -- I interpreted it 24 to be a ten year look back on all of the enumerated, you 25 know, actions, whether it was a conviction, a suspension, a 0051 1 probation, supervision, but deferred adjudication was not 2 part of that laundry list. 3 MR. BIARD: Right. I think that -- because 4 that same session is when they said shall apply Chapter 53. 5 MS. KIPLIN: That's right. That was the 6 Sunset -- 7 MR. BIARD: So there are two things; you've 8 got the ten year look back for the things that are sort of 9 absolute bars to a licensure, and then you have Chapter 53 10 which gives the Agency some discretion. 11 MS. KIPLIN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 12 MR. BIARD: Okay. Thanks. 13 MR. FENOGLIO: And this is Steven Fenoglio, 14 and just to finalize that, it's not only the gambling, 15 gambling related offense or fraud, but also the crime of 16 moral turpitude. 17 MR. BIARD: Right. That was -- 18 MS. KIPLIN: Yeah, moral turpitude. 19 MR. BIARD: Correct. 20 MR. FENOGLIO: Uh-huh (affirmative). 21 MR. BIARD: You don't want to reinstate that. 22 MR. FENOGLIO: The problem with crime of moral 23 turpitude is a new court could decide this is a crime -- 24 MR. BIARD: It changes. 25 MR. FENOGLIO: -- what -- yeah, exactly. So 0052 1 it's not defined in statute what constitutes a crime of moral 2 turpitude. 3 MR. BIARD: Right. 4 MS. KIPLIN: So not -- not that it's -- it 5 matters now, but at that time, as my tenure -- with my tenure 6 as the General Counsel, I -- I really looked at the crime of 7 moral turpitude as one that was the basis of a reported 8 decision that the Agency could rely on. That's -- that was 9 the interpretation. I'm not suggesting that that's 10 mandatory, but it seemed to me that at least created a bright 11 line. Is it a -- if it's a misdemeanor involving moral 12 turpitude, if there's a reported decision on that, then 13 that's something you can rely on. 14 MR. BIARD: Okay. I don't think anyone's 15 interested in reinstating crimes of moral turpitude into the 16 law. 17 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. Mr. Bresnen? 18 MR. BRESNEN: That's not why I'm raising my 19 hand. I don't want to make myself ineligible. Steve 20 Bresnen. In case I actually want to do bingo. 21 Just a legislative matter. They know -- they 22 know about that, I know about the legislative end. I don't 23 think you want to tell the legislature to amend Chapter 53 24 because you're going to be affecting every licensed 25 profession in the State of Texas; not your business. So 0053 1 either amend the Bingo Enabling Act to address this -- for 2 this Agency, and I don't know if this -- Bob, if this would 3 go to any of your Lottery-side licensees or contractors or -- 4 or anything, so it might just be Bingo Enabling Act, but you 5 don't -- or just be generic. These kinds of -- these things 6 -- the deferred adjudication shouldn't be counted, there 7 should just be a ten year look back, don't talk about Chapter 8 53 or anything because you're -- you're inviting -- everybody 9 that's licensed by Texas Department of Licensing and 10 Regulation would be affected by that amendment. 11 And then I'm up there with the legislature 12 trying to explain to people why we're -- why the Lottery 13 Commission's trying to unloosen the collar for everybody. 14 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 15 MR. BRESNEN: In every licensed profession. 16 So just my two cents on the legislative front. 17 MS. ROGERS: Thank you. Thank you. Anyone 18 have any questions? 19 MR. BIARD: You know, with the -- Bob Biard 20 again. I just wanted to make sure while we're talking about 21 this, yeah, there was a specific section that was added in 22 2013, I'm trying to figure out where it was at, because that 23 -- that would be the likely place to address what Steve was 24 talking about. 25 MR. FENOGLIO: Yes. 0054 1 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 2 MR. BIARD: And I don't have the exact -- I 3 was trying to find the exact statute for the -- but it was 4 just a specific statute that just says, the Commission shall 5 apply Chapter 53 to -- 6 MS. ROGERS: So our recommendation to 7 Commissioners are to ask -- is to place the ten year look 8 back in there so they cannot go completely farther as it 9 reads -- as we read earlier, and amend the BEA license 10 eligibility provisions. Is that what we're -- 11 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 12 MS. ROGERS: As y'all saw in in your emails. 13 MS. GREEN: As opposed to deferred 14 adjudication. 15 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 16 MS. GREEN: Insert that as -- 17 MR. FARRELL: This is Michael Farrell with the 18 -- 19 MS. ROGERS: Yes, sir. 20 MR. FARRELL: We're in agreement that there 21 needs to be -- our recommendation's going to be some look 22 back period. 23 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 24 MR. FARRELL: The devil's always in the 25 details on how it gets written, but our -- is that we want to 0055 1 have a -- generally a ten year look back and the wording 2 being probably pre-change, but that's -- that's kind of where 3 we sit right now, so you're not going to -- I would say 4 you're not going to get any opposition from us, to narrow it 5 gen -- to be generally with a look back period. We're 6 looking at -- we're looking at ten or 15. I think we're 7 looking right now at ten. 8 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 9 MR. FARRELL: And we have to report it out to 10 -- by the 1st of December. 11 MS. ROGERS: Yes, sir. 12 MR. FARRELL: So we're finalizing the wording 13 now. 14 MR. BIARD: And just with respect to the 15 Chapter 53 thing, I did find the statute, it's 2001.054(1), 16 so that's in the Bingo Enabling Act, and it's all -- the only 17 thing that did is said the Commission shall adopt rules and 18 guidelines to comply with Chapter 53. That's what caused all 19 this issue with the deferred adjudications. 20 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 21 MR. BIARD: And I recall when the legislature 22 did that, they said this was sort of an across the board 23 change they made that was generally applied to all agencies 24 that had occupational licenses. Thanks. 25 MS. ROGERS: Okay. Thank you. Okay. And I 0056 1 will write that up. There's no further discussion on that. 2 3 AGENDA ITEM VII 4 MS. ROGERS: Number 7 is discussion and 5 possible action on the charitable bingo operations divisions 6 annual report on bingo. No one's name is here to talk about 7 that. Everyone I'm guessing got an email and was able to 8 look at the report and see the numbers, all the board 9 members? Yes? 10 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: I did get the email. 11 MS. ROGERS: Yeah. 12 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: I didn't really look it 13 over. I see we paid out more. You seen that. 14 MS. ROGERS: I saw yeah, customers really see 15 a lot more -- 16 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 17 MS. ROGERS: -- payouts than they have in 18 prior years. 19 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 20 MS. ROGERS: Okay. It looked good. Once 21 again, I will state something that I believe Bresnen stated 22 at the charity advocates meeting. Thank you for looking at 23 the net numbers. That's one thing I think we have to be sure 24 that we make everyone understand you cannot take those gross 25 numbers, that's not our money. 0057 1 MR. DUNCAN: Exactly. 2 MS. ROGERS: You know, you have to look at 3 what we get, so. 4 MR. DUNCAN: Yeah, and which is theirs. 5 MS. ROGERS: Yeah. What is actually in there. 6 Is there anything that anyone would like to bring up or talk 7 about, to do with the annual report? No? Any -- any public 8 comment? No? Okay. Then we will move on. 9 AGENDA ITEM VIII 10 MS. ROGERS: Number 8, discussion and possible 11 action on pull-tabs and event tickets. Mr. Emile? 12 MR. BOURGOYNE: Our workgroup looked at the 13 removing the instants from the event tickets and concluded 14 the risk wasn't worth the reward. No one wants to take the 15 longshot chance of some interpretation down the road that 16 because there's no instants, pull-tab bingo's no longer pull- 17 tab bingo, but is a form of bingo and therefore, subject to 18 the session limitations. So we withdraw that one. 19 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 20 MR. BOURGOYNE: With regards to the sales and 21 redemptions, once a deal is removed from play, we're going to 22 have to temporary withdraw that one until we can get with 23 staff and the auditing department to see if they could come 24 up with a way to deal with the funds during that transitional 25 period before the deal's removed from play. We don't have 0058 1 that solution right now. 2 MS. ROGERS: Okay. And the sales, that was -- 3 tell me again which one that one was? 4 MR. BOURGOYNE: 402.300, sales and redemption, 5 (e). 6 MS. ROGERS: Okay. Sorry, I'm writing at the 7 same time notes, so. 8 MR. BOURGOYNE: One's pulled, one's deferred. 9 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 10 MR. BOURGOYNE: Public comment? 11 MS. ROGERS: Is there -- sorry about that. Is 12 there any public comment on this one? This item? No? Okay. 13 AGENDA ITEM IX 14 MS. ROGERS: Number 9, discussion and possible 15 action on progress pull-tabs. Tommy? 16 MR. DUNCAN: Well, I think Emile brought it up 17 that we should do some progressive pull-tabs. He capped it 18 at 2500, which was a great idea. I think we'll de -- we're 19 going to defer that down to probably -- 20 MR. BOURGOYNE: Legislative -- 21 MR. DUNCAN: -- number 12 -- 22 MR. BOURGOYNE: Legislative action. 23 MR. DUNCAN: -- yeah, because Will is going to 24 speak on -- on that. I mean, there's -- there's not a lot we 25 can do without legislative approval and there is a bill 0059 1 written and Will is going to discuss the bill on number 12. 2 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 3 MR. BOURGOYNE: And maybe we could take a 4 position to support that bill and we should. 5 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Uh-huh (affirmative). 6 MR. BOURGOYNE: Yeah. 7 MR. DUNCAN: Yeah. 8 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 9 MR. DUNCAN: If everybody's in agreement, we 10 should. 11 MS. ROGERS: If everyone is in agreement, I'm 12 sorry, tell me one more time. I was writing. 13 MR. DUNCAN: If everyone's in agreement with 14 the bill, we should back it. 15 MS. ROGERS: Okay. 16 MR. DUNCAN: The BAC should back the bill. It 17 would certainly help Will in his lobbying efforts or Mr. 18 Bresnen or -- or whoever is -- 19 MS. ROGERS: Okay. And we'll bring that up -- 20 MR. DUNCAN: -- on that. 21 MS. ROGERS: -- on item 12. Correct? 22 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Yes. 23 MS. ROGERS: Is that what you're saying? 24 MR. DUNCAN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 25 MS. ROGERS: Okay. Is there any public 0060 1 comment right now at this moment or do we want to wait until 2 12? 3 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Uh-huh (affirmative). 4 AGENDA ITEM X 5 MS. ROGERS: Item Number 10, discussion and 6 possible action on bingo occasions. I apologize, my name is 7 next to this, and I'm not familiar as to what this is. 8 MR. BOURGOYNE: We couldn't even find anything 9 in the minutes about it. 10 MS. ROGERS: I couldn't find anything in the 11 minutes and -- 12 MR. DUNCAN: Was this the temporaries on 13 demand? 14 MS. ROGERS: No. 15 MR. BOURGOYNE: No. 16 MS. ROGERS: That's -- maybe that is what it 17 is. 18 MR. MARTIN: It could be -- 19 MR. BOURGOYNE: We'll let Trace bring that 20 back up. 21 MS. ROGERS: Mr. Bresnen, do you have anything 22 on that? 23 MR. BRESNEN: Yeah, just to let y'all know, 24 I'm not asking for your endorsement today. If you -- if you 25 like the idea and you want to do it, I don't -- I'm not 0061 1 telling you don't do it, but the Bingo Interest Group is 2 going to pursue adding -- allowing two additional occasions 3 per day for three days a week. 4 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: How many days? Three? 5 MR. BRESNEN: Three days a week, two 6 additional occasions during those days, without having to use 7 your temporary. The object is we think that that'll work for 8 some people in the larger areas with -- that aren't competing 9 against Oklahoma and other areas it may not work. So we're 10 leaving people the discretion to do it if it will work for 11 their business in their area. We'll be pursuing that. It'll 12 be in legislation. 13 It's not in the bill that gets filed, it will 14 be attempting to add that later on during the session. 15 MS. ROGERS: Thank you, sir. Melodye, this 16 may be the time where you can speak about temporaries on 17 demand. 18 MS. GREEN: Yes. 19 MS. ROGERS: Do you want to bring that up? 20 MS. GREEN: Yes. The -- what Steve just spoke 21 about, the additional occasions, I think that's very 22 important for us to back. You know, it's -- the main thing 23 bingo is just really rough and we're fighting against illegal 24 gamblers, but fighting against Oklahoma and -- you know, 25 Oklahoma. That's just a lot we're fighting against and we're 0062 1 just trying to get more tools in our, you know, chest to try 2 to help us compete with the other people. But the 3 temporaries on demand, that's what a -- Patricia Rehfield 4 (ph) brought that up at one of our meetings and, you know, 5 the Lottery Commission did allow for you to apply for these 6 temporaries ahead of time. And it makes sense why they were 7 doing that back then because that's when they cost $25 and 8 you had to get your money in first and then you could apply 9 for them. But since you do have this mechanism in place, 10 it's in the rule, it's in the Act, that says you can apply 11 for these ahead of time, once a charity does that, they have 12 24 temporaries they can play, the problem I see is it does 13 say you need to tell the Lottery Commission seven days ahead 14 of time, but you are telling them seven days ahead of time 15 you want to play these, you're just not telling them when you 16 want to play them. And it says you have to hang your license 17 up. I guess when you apply for it and after you send it into 18 the Lottery Commission, you could hang that up. 19 But this might be something that we can do on 20 a rule change. Other states have -- I remember talking to 21 Richard Buckley about that. He said there's halls in other 22 states, they can do that now. So once a charity applies for 23 the license, gets the okay on it, the other taxes are paid, 24 they're in good standing, they haven't used their temporaries 25 up, they're good to go, say you have a great big crowd one 0063 1 night, you walk in and you don't know this is going to 2 happen, like a -- tonight's a really nice night -- day. 3 Well, in Dallas, it's been freezing the past 4 few nights. Tonight, we're going to be packed, because 5 people have just been, you know, sitting at home and they 6 haven't -- you know, haven't played bingo, and they're going 7 to be shaking and things, so they're going to go -- they're 8 going to be there tonight. You know, so and -- Bingo Bill's 9 one time, my hall had to close for the Byron Nelson because 10 we're right in the middle of it and they took our parking lot 11 over. And then one of Sharon's halls picked up all of our 12 customers, you know, which is, you know, hey, yeah, they came 13 back. 14 But anyway, if she had been able to play an 15 extra session, they could have made a lot more money. I 16 don't think this is something people are going to do a lot. 17 You know, I mean, I -- I can't imagine me doing it a lot, but 18 something happens or you have a great big Monday as -- you 19 know, actually, I forgot about Monday being Veteran's Day 20 because it -- they were talking about it all week, we had a 21 really good crowd Monday. We could have done something 22 extra. 23 You don't have to play the whole session, you 24 could just say -- even the customers won't even know you're 25 playing another session, hey, y'all want to stay and play 0064 1 another $500 game or another you know, two $500 games. You 2 don't have to play all 2500. 3 Again, I -- what I'd like to do is just try to 4 get the -- the charities more tools to -- chances to make 5 more money, without having to -- you know, I -- apply for it 6 seven days ahead of time. So this is what I'm -- 7 MR. DUNCAN: Well, I think you said that you 8 can already in the Enabling Act, you can already pre-apply 9 for all these licenses with no dates, right? 10 MS. ROGERS: You can, yes. Yeah. 11 MR. DUNCAN: Okay. So -- 12 MS. ROGERS: Yeah, so I ran both the Act and 13 the thing on. 14 MR. DUNCAN: And Ms. Ives may not have known 15 that, you know, she was going to have 200, 250 people 'till 16 7:30. I agree with that wholeheartedly. 17 MS. GREEN: No, she doesn't know that. 18 MR. DUNCAN: I mean a simple email to the 19 Lottery, it will be time stamped; I used this license on this 20 day. 21 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 22 MR. DUNCAN: I mean, you know, and then post 23 that up. 24 MS. GREEN: You do need to apply for them 25 ahead of time. 0065 1 MR. DUNCAN: Because you don't know what your 2 crowd's going to be like from day to day. 3 MS. GREEN: You're right. You don't know. 4 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Right. 5 MS. GREEN: But if you apply for them ahead of 6 time, and you're -- your charity's okay, you know, there's a 7 regulation you have to, you know, play them in your own hall, 8 the third sessions, but you do that anyway. They're saying 9 well, how do we know you're going to do that. Well, when you 10 apply for temporaries, how do you know they're going to do 11 anything unless you run every single hall. 12 CHAIR ROGERS: Right. 13 MS. GREEN: You just have to trust us. 14 CHAIR ROGERS: Now, Mr. Bunkley said that 15 other states do have this? 16 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). It's pretty 17 common. 18 CHAIR ROGERS: So it is actually possible with 19 IT to have something of that nature. 20 MS. GREEN: Well, I -- you know, I can't even 21 turn my computer on, so you're talking to the wrong person. 22 CHAIR ROGERS: I know. 23 MS. GREEN: But -- Kim, I heard that, you 24 know, but I'm sure it is with somebody that -- you know, a 25 highly paid specialist. 0066 1 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Okay. 2 MR. DUNCAN: I think we ought to back Mr. 3 Bresnen on that. 4 MS. GREEN: Temporaries on demand? 5 MR. DUNCAN: No, the other sessions. 6 MS. GREEN: Oh, I agree, completely. 7 MR. DUNCAN: Yeah. 8 MS. GREEN: Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, just 9 another -- right. Right. 10 CHAIR ROGERS: So the BAC will back the 11 interest group on the two additional occasions three days a 12 week? 13 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 14 MR. DUNCAN: Yes. 15 CHAIR ROGERS: So each charity would be able 16 to play five sessions every week? 17 MR. BRESNEN: Well -- 18 CHAIR ROGERS: Is that what you're asking for? 19 20 MR. BRESNEN: Well, not necessarily. 21 CHAIR ROGERS: Does that make it right? No? 22 MR. BRESNEN: Not necessarily. 23 CHAIR ROGERS: Can someone clarify for me? 24 I'm sorry. Make sure I understand it. 25 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Go ahead. 0067 1 MR. FENOGLIO: So it would be within a 2 commercial bingo hall. 3 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 4 MR. FENOGLIO: That for three days a week they 5 can have two additional sessions. For only three. So the 6 charity would have to decide on the hall as it -- if this is 7 a three day weekend, for example. 8 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 9 MR. FENOGLIO: Veteran's Day, 4th of July may 10 be a better example or Memorial Day. We're going to -- so 11 that three day weekend we're -- we have a right to conduct 12 five sessions; two regular a temp, we all know about that, 13 and then an additional two. For those three days. They have 14 to let the agency know, you know, which one, you know, you're 15 going to have to give some thought, Melodye, if -- this isn't 16 necessarily your deal, but -- 17 MS. GREEN: Yeah, no, no, this is -- 18 MR. FENOGLIO: You would have to give some 19 thought to, okay, we want to line this up, this -- in 20 addition to Melodye's idea of temps on demand. And to be 21 clear, it's going to put some pressure on the Agency to be 22 able to track this either in an audit or just as a general 23 tracking, you know, what the -- what your side of the table 24 does, I don't know. I don't know as far as the software 25 system that y'all have. Obviously, you're going to have to 0068 1 be able to -- if they file that, you're going to have to be 2 able to track it. 3 CHAIR ROGERS: So in a commercial hall, I want 4 Friday, Saturday and Sunday to be my three days. So on 5 Friday I'd be able to play five sessions, Saturday five 6 sessions, and Sunday five sessions. 7 MR. FENOGLIO: Yes, but then on Tuesday -- 8 okay. Again, you're back to two or three. 9 MR. DUNCAN: And that includes a temporary for 10 the five. 11 MR. FENOGLIO: Yes. 12 MS. GREEN: I'm going to do some ciphering. 13 MR. FENOGLIO: Yeah. I know -- 14 MS. GREEN: But again, another tool, yes. We 15 need to, you know -- we haven't had any big changes since 16 1987. I mean, you know, we're still playing on that money, 17 we're still playing on that many days a week, we're still 18 playing, you know, we need some help somewhere and that -- 19 CHAIR ROGERS: You need some help to broaden 20 the -- 21 MS. GREEN: Yes. 22 CHAIR ROGERS: Help us grow. 23 MS. GREEN: I think we need to back, you know, 24 expanding our times any way we can. You know, if it's two 25 extra days or an extra day, whatever we can work out here 0069 1 because the -- the bingo industry, they do a great job. All 2 these legislative changes we're talking about, that's a big 3 deal. We have to hire a lawyer to write the -- you know, 4 lawyers are hard to find around here, but we do have to hire 5 a lawyer to write the bill, then we have to hire a lobbyist, 6 it is a long process. This is a big deal. 7 CHAIR ROGERS: That's what I was going to tell 8 Mr. Fenoglio, thank you for clearing that up. 9 MR. FENOGLIO: Uh-huh (affirmative). 10 CHAIR ROGERS: Any comment from anyone here on 11 the board? 12 MR. BAKER: Ronnie Baker. 13 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, sir. 14 MR. BAKER: So speaking with Melodye, you 15 know, I recently -- we've had a couple small charities, we've 16 had to think about 14 inches of rain throughout the county. 17 MS. GREEN: Yeah. 18 MR. BAKER: So they had to wait to get their 19 license in and the seven days went by where it rained and 20 they didn't get to play bingo. They already had the license, 21 they had to go back -- well, I can't advertise, because I've 22 got to go back and reapply again. What you said had -- to me 23 made a lot of sense. You get the license -- 24 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 25 MR. BAKER: -- and these little charities who 0070 1 will play and if you're about wanting to help small 2 charities, and I'm talking maybe just one session I'm doing 3 with the Catholic church Saturday. 4 MS. GREEN: Right. 5 MR. BAKER: And if something happens, it blows 6 up, we're supposed to have several hundred people there, but 7 they're waiting to advertise. They got the word out, they 8 could actually get a few more turkey breasts for St. Joe's 9 Hospital. 10 MS. GREEN: I hadn't thought about that, 11 Ronnie. That makes a lot of sense. You're right, if they 12 had the -- 13 MR. BAKER: Yeah, and that's -- 14 MS. GREEN: -- cart before the horse. Right. 15 They advertise. Yeah. No, this will definitely help the 16 smaller. 17 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. So we're -- 18 MR. BRESNEN: Kim, could I just add a couple 19 things? 20 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, sir. 21 MR. BRESNEN: First of all, appreciate the 22 support for the additional occasions. I strongly support the 23 idea of the temporaries on demand as the -- Melodye laid out. 24 And the third thing is on -- on -- you know, I just kind of 25 got the see spot run version on our list of things there. 0071 1 There's lots of things that will have to be addressed in -- 2 in the bill. We didn't try to anticipate or address all of 3 those in this. 4 So just like on the net proceeds deal, we need 5 to address something on the units. So we didn't try to 6 address everything in there, just a simplified version of 7 what we're trying to get at. 8 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, sir. Thank you. So we 9 are in agreement that we are going to back the interest group 10 to the Commissioners and to the Legislation to pass this 11 additional days in the hall and temporaries on demand. 12 Temporaries on demand would be -- staff would 13 be able to handle that and do that, those would not be 14 legislative, correct? 15 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: The devil's in the 16 detail. 17 MS. GREEN: Exactly. 18 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 19 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: I can't give you an 20 answer right now on that. 21 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. We'd like to ask the 22 Commissioners to have staff look into this. 23 MS. GREEN: Yeah. 24 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Yes. 25 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, sir, Mr. Bresnen. 0072 1 MR. BRESNEN: We -- I think there's ample 2 statutory authority, but I agree with Michael that how you 3 implement that and what resources, how people do it, how they 4 get the word out to them to do it, how you get the word back, 5 so the auditors know there was an occasion performed and all 6 those kinds of things -- 7 CHAIR ROGERS: Right. 8 MR. BRESNEN: -- there's complexity to that. 9 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 10 MR. BRESNEN: But some -- several sessions ago 11 we put some pretty broad language in there that I think would 12 authorize them doing it. It would be a great thing, even if 13 we have to be patient, I'd like to figure it out. 14 MR. DUNCAN: Absolutely. 15 CHAIR ROGERS: Absolutely. I do know that 16 would make a huge difference for a lot of halls and assist in 17 a lot of different ways. 18 MS. GREEN: It would. 19 CHAIR ROGERS: So okay. We'll put that in 20 there. Any further comment on that issue. Okay. 21 AGENDA ITEM 11 22 CHAIR ROGERS: Then we will move to number 11, 23 Discussion and possible action on auto mailouts, paperwork 24 reduction. And that is myself. 25 As a bookkeeper, the Lottery does a fabulous 0073 1 job. Staff does a great job. I receive five of these every 2 quarter, that's 20 of these a year. And you notice that 3 they're closed because I am not a millennial, but I do like 4 using the internet and our filing online. It's great. If it 5 doesn't get lost in the evil cloud, it's fabulous. 6 I spoke with a couple people on staff and 7 apparently, if I -- if I understand it correctly, they have 8 to pull sometimes four, sometimes five, sometimes three, it 9 just depends, individuals down to the mail room, they stuff 10 these envelopes with all of these papers, which it takes a 11 lot of time. I wouldn't want to do it. 12 They stuff -- not to mention making all these 13 forms, printing them out, stuff them in these envelopes, and 14 then if I have this correct, they send these off because they 15 have to be mailed and they don't have the capability to mail 16 it straight from here. They send it via courier to be mailed 17 out. 18 I just kind of played with a few figures. 19 They have the copy fees, the stamp fees, the envelope fees, 20 the cost of the paper, not to mention the manpower. And I 21 ran the average pay in Austin for an office individual is 22 roughly around $15, I don't know if that's true or not. But 23 you have any many lessors and units that you have within the 24 state of Texas right now, today, of course that could always 25 change, this would be, over a year's span, and I did $1.50 0074 1 for the lessors because the lessor is a smaller envelope. I 2 have one here in all my -- amongst all my papers. It's a 3 smaller envelope. 4 And then these are the units and the 5 conductors. If I put it together and I could be totally off 6 and I apologize if I am to staff, but I -- I figured roughly 7 around $15,000 is what it cost -- if I did $3 for these and 8 $1.50 for the small envelopes, multiply times how many 9 conductors and units and everyone there is. 10 So we all see that there's quite a bit of 11 money and that doesn't even take, you know, manpower and 12 things of that nature. I would like to see if IT could do 13 it, and I know it's going to cost IT a little bit, but I 14 believe IT is here, to put on your portal system where you 15 can check a box kind of like what you do at the bank. You 16 check that box that you opt out of receiving these. You're 17 paperless. You're going to file online. Checking that box 18 gives our small VFWs or our small halls still the option to 19 receive these, because there are charities that still like to 20 do the paper. I like to do paper on some things. This I do 21 not. 22 I like to pay online, I like to file online, 23 I'm done. It would -- I think it would cost maybe a little 24 bit in the beginning, but it would save over -- in the end. 25 And I believe it would help staff with their individuals that 0075 1 don't have to leave their desk to go down to do this. 2 So -- 3 MR. BOURGOYNE: So you're opting out of 4 certain mailings, but don't opt out of all mailings; is that 5 -- my question would be Michael -- 6 CHAIR ROGERS: I -- I would love to see it opt 7 out of renewals, and you can do that online. I'd love to see 8 it opt out of quarterly reports, and you do that online. 9 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Agreed. 10 CHAIR ROGERS: There's not much -- those are 11 the only two things, I believe, that are mailed to us, 12 correct? Yeah, it's just your renewal and your -- and your 13 quarterly reports. 14 Now, like renewals, we're not there yet. 15 Quarterly reports, we're there, we can do it. I -- I believe 16 it can be done. Staff did speak with IT department, they 17 said yes, it is doable. They can do it. Once they have the 18 go ahead. 19 MR. FARRELL: Well, there's a lot of things we 20 can -- this is Michael Farrell. There's a lot of things we 21 can do. 22 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, sir. 23 MR. FARRELL: Some of it's going to cost some 24 money, some of it's got to be programmed into time, and 25 again, sit down and look at what exactly the -- the 0076 1 guidelines are, because again, it's -- some of it is how you 2 -- you parse it out. 3 So being able to program it into the system is 4 -- can be done, but how do you do that is -- is -- if you 5 check that one block, you're not going to get any mailings or 6 do you need to get some mailings, so you've got a lot of 7 tests and pieces that have to go into there -- into that. 8 So what I would say is, it's something you 9 look at. I know we -- we talked about that that last time, 10 and we can -- we'll take a look at -- we can look at making 11 that happen for you, but I also think that it's -- it's not 12 going to be fast, because we have to make changes to the 13 software and -- 14 CHAIR ROGERS: Understand. 15 MR. FARRELL: -- we've got to contract it out. 16 CHAIR ROGERS: Understand. So at this time we 17 would make a suggestion or ask the Commissioners to have 18 staff look into this and have this done? Is that how we 19 would move forward? 20 MR. FARRELL: Yeah. 21 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Is there -- 22 MR. FARRELL: I'm okay with not mailing things 23 out. 24 CHAIR ROGERS: I'm sure the people that have 25 to stuff these are too. Any other comment from the BAC? Any 0077 1 public comment on this issue? Yes, sir. 2 MR. BUNKLEY: Hi, my name is Richard Bunkley 3 with the Littlefield Corporation. I would just suggest that 4 we also consider making the renewals automatic and let the 5 licensees -- or let -- just make them automatic. It seems to 6 me the main purpose of a renewal is to update your officers 7 and directors, and you have to do that within ten days 8 anyway, and so it's a big exercise processing all these 9 renewals and you don't really accomplish anything. So that's 10 my suggestion. 11 CHAIR ROGERS: That's a very good suggestion. 12 MS. GREEN: That was. 13 CHAIR ROGERS: Nowadays a renewal I have the 14 charity sign, I put a new officers list and I send it in, so 15 that is the only thing we do really. Okay. 16 MS. GREEN: We just email it in, you don't 17 even have to say it in regular mail. 18 CHAIR ROGERS: Exactly. 19 MS. GREEN: Yeah, so. That's really good. 20 CHAIR ROGERS: Any other public comment? Yes, 21 ma'am? Please -- please state your name. 22 MS. KNAPP: Laurie Knapp, K-n-a-p-p. I 23 represent -- I'm with (Indiscernible) Management Services and 24 we manage several bingo halls in the Central Texas area. 25 Honestly, I wasn't aware that we could do renewals online. 0078 1 How long has that -- 2 CHAIR ROGERS: It -- right now at this point 3 you cannot. No, ma'am. No, ma'am. No. 4 MS. KNAPP: So again, on the paper reduction 5 act, in the renewals when they come and there are so many 6 pieces of paper in there also, the forms, and I have written 7 this on your comment page which I guess doesn't need to be in 8 there, I don't know if anybody's reading it, because those 9 forms are all online and now that we are filling them out 10 online, through the PDF Adobe process, that is a huge waste 11 of paper. I throw away six pages from every license renewal 12 packet. 13 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, ma'am. 14 MR. FARRELL: What are you throwing away? 15 MS. KNAPP: There is a form in there to add 16 officers, there is a form in there to remove officers, 17 there's a form in there to change the Bingo Chair person, 18 there is a -- 19 MR. FARRELL: Oh, you -- are you talking about 20 from the package you get? 21 MS. KNAPP: Yes. 22 MR. FARRELL: Because you're doing it online? 23 MS. KNAPP: Yes. 24 MR. FARRELL: Okay. That's -- 25 MS. KNAPP: Not -- no, even the renewals are - 0079 1 - 2 MR. FARRELL: No, what I'm saying is the forms 3 are online. 4 MS. KNAPP: The forms are available online. 5 MR. FARRELL: Yes. Yeah. That's what I'm 6 misunderstanding. I'm misunderstanding what -- 7 MS. KNAPP: Yeah, and we're filling those 8 specific forms out online, printing them and mailing them in 9 with the renewals. 10 MR. FARRELL: Uh-huh (affirmative). 11 MS. KNAPP: Or fax. 12 MR. FARRELL: But you're also getting blank 13 forms in the mail? 14 MS. KNAPP: Yeah. 15 MR. FARRELL: Okay. 16 MS. KNAPP: They're sending them with the 17 packet and it's so unnecessary. 18 MR. FARRELL: Okay. 19 CHAIR ROGERS: Because a lot of times you 20 don't add or remove, there's a lot of charities that keep the 21 same officers and they go right through, so you're not using 22 those forms. So that would be -- 23 MS. KNAPP: Even if you are, you're not using 24 the paper one that they send you -- 25 CHAIR ROGERS: Right now. 0080 1 MS. KNAPP: -- because you're going to go 2 online, pull up the form, fill it out and print it. So 3 that's going to go in the trash. 4 CHAIR ROGERS: Because Adobe printed is 5 sometimes a lot better than our handwriting. 6 MS. KNAPP: Yes, much. 7 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes. 8 MR. FARRELL: Yes, it is. 9 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes. 10 MR. FARRELL: From personal experience. 11 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes. 12 MR. FARRELL: And if -- and if you write 13 things on -- this is Michael Farrell. If you put things on 14 your comments, I see the comments. They come to me. 15 MS. KNAPP: Okay. 16 MR. FARRELL: So I see all the comments, good 17 and bad, that get written on those forms. 18 MS. KNAPP: Well, I run out of good things to 19 say, so that wasn't bad -- 20 MR. FARRELL: Okay. 21 MS. KNAPP: But on that note and when are 22 renewals going to be available online? 23 MR. FARRELL: I -- I can't tell you that right 24 now. 25 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Any other public 0081 1 comment? Okay. I will put that in my notes and suggest to 2 Commissioners and ask for -- 3 MR. FARRELL: So let me ask this one question 4 then. 5 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes. 6 MR. FARRELL: If -- if the forms are online, 7 you're saying you don't want them in a package sent to you? 8 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, sir. 9 MR. FARRELL: Okay. 10 CHAIR ROGERS: If I know that a charity's 11 going to renew and they send me their officer list and I see 12 they have two new individuals, I call them up and I say, 13 Suzy, I need the information on these two individuals. She 14 says okay, she sends me an email -- 15 MR. FARRELL: Uh-huh (affirmative). 16 CHAIR ROGERS: -- sends me however she gets it 17 to me. I go online, I have all of the forms on my computer 18 in Adobe. I go on and pull up that form, I type those 19 individuals' names in and I save it to a file and I email the 20 renewal in. 21 MR. FARRELL: Uh-huh (affirmative). 22 CHAIR ROGERS: I just do the sign sheet, scan 23 that, and that's how I send my renewals in. 24 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: But you're not suggesting 25 he remove the forms from everybody's renewal package? 0082 1 CHAIR ROGERS: I think if you want them 2 removed, you should be able to choose. 3 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Yeah. 4 MR. FARRELL: Well, I -- 5 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes. 6 MR. FARRELL: Okay. 7 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: I agree. 8 CHAIR ROGERS: Because if I need that form, 9 I'm going online to get it. I'm not using it out of the 10 packet. 11 MR. FARRELL: So if -- let me -- let me ask 12 this, and this is just trying to parse this down a little 13 bit. If I were to give you in the letter we send for your 14 renewal package all the forms are available in this website, 15 and so all you get is -- you know, what, two pieces of paper 16 instead of six, or whatever it is, is that a problem? 17 CHAIR ROGERS: For me, no. I would say that 18 maybe for a small VFW, maybe for a small Knights of Columbus 19 who does not -- is not technologically inclined, maybe. 20 MS. GREEN: And it is a problem for them, 21 because I've tried to fax things to the VFW before that 22 played with us, we don't have a fax machine, you know, can I 23 email it to you? Our computer doesn't work or our guy's not 24 here, so those are, you know, smaller -- 25 MR. BOURGOYNE: I think you can only opt out. 0083 1 I don't think you can eliminate. I think you can opt out of 2 the form. I don't see how you can eliminate them for the 3 smaller -- 4 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: No, I don't -- 5 CHAIR ROGERS: I -- I would like to see 6 something where we can opt out, so I would opt out for this 7 charity and then your staff sees that and they don't mail it. 8 MR. FARRELL: Well, I -- I understand what 9 you're saying. I'm -- it's just refining the -- the piece. 10 CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah. 11 MS. GREEN: Maybe email us instead. I mean, 12 if you emailed me the renewals or emailed me instead of 13 mailing me, you know, if you have a letter sent -- 14 MR. FARRELL: Oh, I think you run into -- what 15 you just said, using what you just told me, is you run into 16 the same thing. The -- 17 MS. GREEN: Yeah. 18 MR. FARRELL: -- VFW guy says my computer 19 isn't there. 20 MS. GREEN: Right. 21 MR. FARRELL: Or I can't see it on my phone. 22 CHAIR ROGERS: But if you do -- if you do have 23 the option to go on, the Bingo chairperson or the authorized 24 rep or the bookkeeper, to check that box, why not have the 25 renewal where I can print it if I need to online because I 0084 1 opted out of the paper? 2 MR. FARRELL: We can look at that. 3 CHAIR ROGERS: Yeah, we can go into that 4 further. 5 MR. FARRELL: What I'm saying is we can look 6 and see what -- what the requirements are and how to make 7 that happen. I don't think that's an unreasonable request. 8 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Thank you. Any other 9 further public comment? No? Okay. 10 MS. KNAPP: I will say that the IT department 11 has gone forward a lot, a lot of the forms now have tabbing 12 that before you had to -- that Adobe you had to click on it 13 and type it in, so it is moving forward. 14 CHAIR ROGERS: Would you state your name one 15 more time, please? 16 MS. KNAPP: Laurie Knapp. 17 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. 18 MS. KNAPP: And so I have faith -- I'm 19 confident they can get this done. 20 MR. FARRELL: Well, as I said at the last TCA, 21 BIG meeting, we're -- we're moving towards all the forms to 22 be Adobe fillable online, so that it makes that easier for 23 you, because we are tired of reading your handwriting. 24 (Laughter) 25 MS. GREEN: Yeah, that would be great. 0085 1 CHAIR ROGERS: Boy. 2 MR. FARRELL: So -- 3 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 4 AGENDA ITEM 12 5 CHAIR ROGERS: Number 12, discussion and 6 possible action on legislative recommendations from the 7 industry. And if the BAC doesn't have any problem with this, 8 Mr. Bresnen, would you like to present to us? 9 MR. BRESNEN: Yes, ma'am. Steve Bresnen, B-r- 10 e-s-n-e-n. I've got two other things. I really appreciate 11 y'all supporting us on the net proceeds and the added 12 occasions. I'm not trying to get my whole list today, but 13 there are two other things that -- that I'd like for you to 14 consider today and hopefully support. 15 One is pretty simple. That's just right now 16 the workers, when they're waiting to get on the registry, 17 they can be temporarily employed for 14 days. We'd just like 18 to top that to 30. This is a real practical thing. I'm told 19 that there's some folks who got a new employee that's -- 20 that's waiting. I think the Agency's actually doing a pretty 21 good job of turning these around, but people -- these are low 22 wage employees, they want to have some security and certainty 23 in having a job, and just bumping that up to 30 days will 24 give them a little sense of it's going to go a little longer 25 for them that they might make it more permanent instead of 0086 1 going out and finding something else on the 13th day before 2 they get on the registry. Pretty simple. 3 The next one is the big picture. As I said at 4 the TA -- TCA Bingo Interest Group meetings, you know, the -- 5 they rob banks. The reason they rob banks is because that's 6 where the money is. And money -- there is money that is 7 going to the local governments around the state who have no 8 regulatory responsibilities and essentially deliver no 9 services to Bingo other than the normal services that every 10 other business in the world gets. 11 And so what we would like to do is we'll give 12 them the opportunity to, if they want to keep their portion 13 of the prize fee, we want them to have to opt in to receiving 14 that, continuing to receive it. Many of them will opt not to 15 continue to receive it for a couple of reasons: 16 It's a minuscule amount, not even a rounding 17 error in their budgets. 18 Two, the money stays right there in the local 19 community and the non-profits that are doing community 20 services that then the city or the county doesn't have to 21 provide. 22 Three, there are going to be some people that 23 run for office that don't want to vote for a tax and we'd 24 like to put them in the position of -- of the -- of not 25 voting to tax these entities. 0087 1 And so, there's a chunk of money there. We 2 think we can create an incentive for the organizations to go 3 see their city council people and county commissioners and 4 ask them to not vote. We'll put a date certain, you know, it 5 will be pretty quick in the statute and have them be able to 6 either vote or don't. If they don't vote, then the charities 7 would deposit the prize -- they'll still collect the prize 8 fee, but they'll deposit it directly into their general fund 9 and that'll be -- that'll go to their charitable purposes. 10 And the agency will be able to track it and they'll be able 11 to report for it. In effect, it'll be a little bit of a rake 12 off the top -- in this case, off the top of the prizes. 13 Yes, ma'am. 14 CHAIR ROGERS: So it would be the county and 15 the city would have to opt or vote? 16 MR. BRESNEN: Whoever's getting it now would 17 have to vote to stay -- keep getting it. 18 CHAIR ROGERS: And our city gets 1.25 percent, 19 right? And then -- 20 MR. BRESNEN: It depends. 21 CHAIR ROGERS: -- 1.25 in the -- 22 MR. BRESNEN: In some -- in some places one or 23 the other local subdivision gets it all, in some places it's 24 split. 25 CHAIR ROGERS: Oh, okay. 0088 1 MR. BRESNEN: And we're not giving anybody 2 that's not getting it now an opportunity to opt in. I 3 appreciated you bringing that to my attention. I made sure 4 the drafter understood that. So only if they're getting it 5 now. 6 CHAIR ROGERS: Would this be -- would they 7 have to do it another time, another -- every year they'd have 8 to opt into it or just one time? 9 MR. BRESNEN: Use it or lose it. 10 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 11 MR. BRESNEN: I have no idea how to estimate 12 what the result of this would be, but it can't be worse than 13 we got right now. 14 So anyway, we appreciate your support on that. 15 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. 16 MR. BRESNEN: You bet. 17 CHAIR ROGERS: BAC members, do you have a 18 comment? 19 MS. GREEN: That'd be wonderful? I mean, just 20 money that -- that goes to the city -- 21 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: I move we support it. 22 MS. GREEN: -- would go to the charities, 23 straight to the -- anything that would just make more money 24 for them is the -- you know -- 25 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: I move we support all 0089 1 for. 2 MS. GREEN: Yeah. 3 MR. BRESNEN: Let me just say -- 4 MS. GREEN: Absolutely. 5 MR. BRESNEN: -- this money only exists 6 because of the efforts of the charities to conduct bingo. 7 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: That's right. 8 MR. BRESNEN: The government didn't put any 9 money into this, they don't invest in it, they're a drag on 10 it with regulations, most of the big halls that I know of 11 anyway, has supplied their own security. 12 MS. GREEN: Oh, yeah. 13 MR. BRESNEN: Et cetera. So -- 14 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: They don't give us 15 anything. 16 MR. BRESNEN: -- it seems only fair and it's 17 an investment -- 18 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 19 MR. BRESNEN: -- and again, these funds are 20 staying in the community for community purposes. 21 CHAIR ROGERS: The funds that they do -- the 22 city opts out of it, the funds would go into the charity's 23 general, not the -- not the bingo account? 24 MR. BRESNEN: Not go to into the bingo account 25 or bingo -- 0090 1 CHAIR ROGERS: It goes to their general. 2 MR. BRESNEN: -- it would go right into their 3 general fund. By the way, might help with their net 4 proceeds. 5 MS. GREEN: It does. And it guarantees that 6 the charities get some money. You know, that -- if we can 7 get that -- we're talking about trying to get that five 8 percent back, it's a guarantee that the charities do make 9 money. 10 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Any other BAC 11 comment? Yes, sir. Please state your name first. 12 MR. STEWART: Tom Stewart with the Texas 13 Charity Advocates. I just would like to emphasize that TCA 14 supports the three initiatives that BIG and Steve Bresnen 15 have outlined today. We do encourage you as well to suppose 16 those. 17 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Well, I think all 18 the -- all the issues that y'all have brought up have been 19 very helpful in the end, would be very helpful to the 20 charities. And I think that's what we're all here for. 21 MS. GREEN: Right. 22 CHAIR ROGERS: Anyone else have comment on 23 this issue? 24 MR. MARTIN: I have some more legislative 25 action then. 0091 1 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Yes, sir. 2 MR. MARTIN: My name's Will Martin. These are 3 three recommended statutory changes we'd like to see take 4 place. The American Legion, VFW, and Conservative Texas for 5 Charitable Bingo. 6 First of all, we have the carryover pull-tab 7 bingo and please, do not use the word progressive in anything 8 you write. First of all, we have a Republican-controlled 9 legislation and they do not like the word progressive. I 10 don't care what you're talking about. They don't like to be 11 progressive. 12 This bill actually went through the House last 13 session and was passed by -- right at two-thirds or a little 14 over and kind of got stalled in the Senate. The carryover 15 pull-tab bingo bill, for those who aren't familiar with it, 16 what -- basically what we're wanting to do is since we can -- 17 you can give away $750 in an event tab game, we only want to 18 give away $550, we want to take that other $200 and put it in 19 a jackpot over here. 20 One way to have someone win the jackpot would 21 be to have a paper board with 50 squares on it. You win the 22 $550, Mike, you would also win a chance to go up to pick one 23 of those 50 squares. If you don't pick the right square, you 24 don't win anything. The next person going up picks 40 -- off 25 of 49 squares and 48 squares, so on. 0092 1 This would give you, if it went all the way to 2 50 squares, last square, it would be a jackpot of $10,000. 3 So you stand a chance of winning anything between $200 and 4 $10,000 depending on which square you pick. 5 Of course, there's other ways to have that 6 jackpot won. Are there any questions? It's pretty simple. 7 MR. BOURGOYNE: Yes. You're capping it at 10? 8 MR. STEWART: Ten thousand, yes, sir. 9 MR. BOURGOYNE: And it applies to any paper 10 pull-tab bingo game? 11 MR. MARTIN: Yeah, it would be played with 12 event tabs. 13 MR. BOURGOYNE: Just event tabs, all styles? 14 MR. MARTIN: Pardon? 15 MR. BOURGOYNE: All styles of tabs? 16 MR. MARTIN: All -- yeah, all styles of event 17 tabs. Our next legislative change is we would like to 18 incorporate folded or banded paper tickets which would 19 authorize folded or banded tickets to be a type of a pull-tab 20 bingo. 21 The reason for that is the American Legion and 22 VFW halls, these small halls, would like to have them. I 23 would say the majority of our American Legion and VFW halls 24 do not do event tabs and the -- these banded tickets would be 25 good. Everything about them is great. There -- they would 0093 1 be easy to handle. They could put them in jars or cups where 2 there was five in there, ten in there, they can also bag -- 3 you know, would be bagged in five or tens if you want them 4 like that. 5 For those of you that are not familiar with 6 them and want to see one -- 7 CHAIR ROGERS: That's me. 8 MR. MARTIN: -- we do have some samples if -- 9 CHAIR ROGERS: Can we see one? 10 MR. MARTIN: -- I can get paramount to bring a 11 handful of them up here. 12 CHAIR ROGERS: And this is called a banded 13 paper ticket? 14 MR. MARTIN: Yes. 15 MR. BOURGOYNE: The only thing I'd like to say 16 is I'd like to at least have an opportunity to poll them in, 17 the license manufacturers in Texas, to see if they approve 18 this before we move forward with it. I haven't received any 19 information from any of them regarding this request. 20 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 21 MR. BOURGOYNE: And I know at least two of our 22 license manufacturers here make jar tickets. But I haven't 23 had an opportunity to poll them. 24 CHAIR ROGERS: Can we see one, please, sir? 25 Oh, I hate to make you open up a whole bag. 0094 1 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: No, it's where this thing 2 is. 3 MS. GREEN: Will, is this what they call a 4 pickle jar type ticket? 5 MR. MARTIN: Yeah, they're called -- 6 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: They're jar tickets. 7 MS. GREEN: Jar tickets? 8 MR. MARTIN: Pickle jar tickets. 9 MS. KIPLIN: So just -- Kimberly Kiplin for 10 the record. Just to be clear, the tickets that you're being 11 handed right now, those are clearly samples. These are not 12 live tickets. I want to make sure -- 13 CHAIR ROGERS: I hope not. 14 MS. KIPLIN: No, they're not. They're clearly 15 samples. You're not going to win any money, they're all -- 16 MR. BOURGOYNE: Well, they're not from the 17 licensed manufacturer either. 18 MS. KIPLIN: So it's a -- it's a -- 19 CHAIR ROGERS: So my question is, what is -- 20 what does this do for me? What does this -- 21 MS. KIPLIN: So what you're going to have is a 22 zero ticket, but -- 23 MR. MARTIN: It says win zero. Yeah. 24 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: This is -- it's going to 25 do nothing for you so it doesn't get anybody in trouble. Now 0095 1 under normal circumstances, there would be a -- 2 CHAIR ROGERS: Can you speak a little bit 3 louder? 4 MS. GREEN: Yeah, please identify -- 5 CHAIR ROGERS: Oh, sorry. He may need the 6 microphone. 7 MR. MARTIN: Yeah. Is there a microphone over 8 there? 9 MS. GREEN: There he is. 10 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Under normal 11 circumstances, if you were to open this up, you see where it 12 says win zero dollars? It would either say win 10 or win 5 13 or win 50 or something like that. 14 Jar tickets, because they're smaller than what 15 a pull-tab that you're accustomed to, you can't get all the 16 information on them and so they took them, you have a flare, 17 which is essentially the -- the roadmap of the game, so when 18 you look up on that flare, if you're looking for 10 bathing 19 beauties and they pay out $100, that's what you're looking 20 for within those -- those images. 21 A lot of times there's holders, so there might 22 be a double-zero that you hold and it'll give you that kind 23 of information on that flare as well. 24 In this case it would be a fireman's boot 25 might pay out $25, $50, whatever. It's same -- it plays the 0096 1 same way as pull-tabs do, it's just a different vehicle by 2 which they're putting the money out there. 3 CHAIR ROGERS: And these are not legal in 4 Texas at this time? 5 MS. KIPLIN: No, but the -- they're not and 6 that's because of the definition of pull-tab bingo that 7 limits it. But it's paper, right, paper pull-tab, but it's 8 limited to perforated break-open tabs, so this would be a 9 simple addition to the definition of pull-tab bingo to allow 10 for folded or banded tickets. Total paper. There's no 11 electronics involved in this whatsoever. It's a paper 12 product and -- and pull -- I represent Paramount Games, which 13 is the one who's brought this folded ticket to you today. 14 It's my understanding that there are other manufacturers that 15 are capable of manufacturing this particular product. 16 But it -- and at least in my view, it's an 17 opportunity to bring a new product into the state of Texas 18 for charities to use if they decide that they want. It's not 19 mandatory that, you know, you use a folded or banded ticket, 20 but it's a new product. 21 It's total paper, it's not an expansion of the 22 gaming footprint or anything like that. 23 CHAIR ROGERS: To get this -- would this be 24 legislative or -- 25 MS. KIPLIN: This is a legislative change. It 0097 1 would -- 2 CHAIR ROGERS: It would be legislative. 3 MS. KIPLIN: -- require a change to the 4 definition of pull-tab bingo in the occupations -- the Bingo 5 Enabling Act. And it would just add the words folded or 6 banded ticket to the definition. 7 CHAIR ROGERS: Do you all -- 8 MR. DUNCAN: There is a bill being submitted 9 for this. 10 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 11 MR. DUNCAN: From the Conservative Texans. 12 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 13 MS. KIPLIN: Right. Conservative Texans -- 14 MR. DUNCAN: And we support it, I support it. 15 MS. KIPLIN: -- supports it, the VFW I also 16 represent through Texas Department of -- Veterans of Foreign 17 Wars. They support this. They believe that it would be a 18 very good product in -- in local posts. It would -- it -- 19 and to offer that. 20 And like I said, it's no different than the 21 other offerings that are -- that are now lawful in Texas. 22 You don't have to use it if you don't want to, but I think -- 23 MR. DUNCAN: It's another tool. 24 MS. KIPLIN: It's another tool, yes, sir. 25 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: We need all the tools we 0098 1 can get. 2 MS. KIPLIN: Yes. 3 MR. MARTIN: The American Legion, Department 4 of Texas, fully supports this. I know our disabled American 5 Veterans in the Victoria County also support this. 6 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 7 MR. MARTIN: So we're asking for support of 8 the BAC on this. 9 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, ma'am. 10 MS. HALE: Angela Hale, Co-Executive Director 11 of Conservative Texans with Will. And so I just want to kind 12 of recap. 13 We support the TCA initiatives and the BIG 14 initiatives, we have our own initiatives and we hope the 15 Committee will support our initiatives. 16 Our goal is to try to bring in more revenue to 17 charities. The Veterans posts, the American Legions posts, 18 they can put these and they can use these little tickets, and 19 so it's very important to all the Vets we've talked to that 20 want to have -- we need to have more choices, we need to make 21 it more exciting for people to want to play bingo. 22 The carryover bill we supported last session, 23 but we had a different priority that we pushed harder, this 24 will be our top priority; the carryover bill in the session. 25 And so, we also want to support the tickets and we have a 0099 1 little bit different proposal on expanding the hours 4:00 to 2 6:00 which is our third proposal. 3 And so it's the same concept whether it's the 4 thing that Mr. Bresnen was talking about or what we're 5 talking about, but the goal is to allow more people to play 6 bingo, to make it more exciting, to bring in more revenue to 7 the charities. 8 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you very much. 9 MR. DUNCAN: I say we should support it. 10 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 11 MS. GREEN: Second. 12 MR. BOURGOYNE: I disagree. 13 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 14 MR. BOURGOYNE: I can't support something 15 brought up to us at this meeting without prior notice without 16 me having an opportunity to contact the licensed 17 manufacturers that I represent. 18 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 19 MR. BOURGOYNE: And I don't think it's proper 20 to do so. 21 MS. GREEN: Do you think that they don't sell 22 this or would be a -- 23 MR. BOURGOYNE: I have not had a chance -- 24 MS. GREEN: -- something that they could do? 25 MR. BOURGOYNE: -- to poll them. That's all 0100 1 I'm saying. I'll poll them this week if you want my answer, 2 but I can't give you an answer right now. It's not fair. We 3 didn't have this information before the meeting. 4 CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Bresnen. 5 MR. BRESNEN: Madam Chair? 6 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, sir. 7 MR. BRESNEN: We -- I saw this probably a 8 couple of days ago and I have not had a chance to meet with 9 the Bingo Interest Group on it either. We're not opposed to 10 it, I don't mean to be talking against it at all, but I do 11 need -- before I could get on record one way or the other -- 12 MR. BOURGOYNE: That's all I'm asking for. 13 MR. BRESNEN: The other -- the other items in 14 Mr. Martin's agenda we fully support and I just need to find 15 out about this one. 16 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, sir. Thank you -- Mr. 17 Baker? 18 MR. BAKER: Ronnie Baker, Roy Bingo. Okay. 19 So we represent or we -- we buy from a variety of 20 manufacturers. And I did travel 14 states when I worked for 21 a national manufacturer that produces the product and I saw 22 it in bars. I think that many of the manufacturers we deal 23 with that also manufacture that product, I'd like to hear 24 from them, because those were primarily sold in bars at the 25 counter, people sitting there drinking beer. 0101 1 My thing is if it's viable and it helps bingo, 2 that's fine, but I'd like for the other manufacturers to have 3 a chance to speak to it, look at what it does economically to 4 all the halls, small halls and big halls. 5 So I think we have a lot of people that make 6 that product. When we -- when we approved the event ticket 7 in Texas, many of the manufacturers came as were allowed to 8 actually make a presentation and it took two years to get 9 that done. So -- as you're well aware, you all were there. 10 So my thing is I mean -- and that -- this is 11 the first time I've seen that here in Texas, but I saw a lot 12 of these, so -- 13 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, sir. Mr. Fenoglio. 14 MR. FENOGLIO: Yes, for Texas Charities 15 Advocates, we support the carryover bill. This issue on the 16 banded tickets, we -- I pitched it with Kim, we're going to 17 have a presentation. The TCA Board has not had a chance to 18 sit down and look at it and decide what our position is, so 19 we're sort of like the Bingo Interest Group. We're not 20 opposed to it, we're not supportive of it, we want to know 21 more information and Ms. Kiplin has arranged for several of 22 us to meet with her manufacturer and talk about that. 23 And on the four to six hours, we support that. 24 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, sir. For the BA -- 25 if the BAC supports or against, to let you know, this is 0102 1 going in front of the legislators, correct? This is already 2 going forward? Because I know that starts in January and I 3 know there's not a lot of time. Is that correct? 4 MR. MARTIN: Right. 5 MS. KIPLIN: That's correct. We'd all 6 honestly like to have the support of the Bingo Advisory 7 Committee and in terms of the folks that want to get with 8 their constituents or whoever their folks are, we don't -- we 9 don't have any issue with that at all. 10 MR. BOURGOYNE: I just need a short window. 11 Short window is all I need. 12 MS. KIPLIN: Yeah, and certainly, we wouldn't 13 want to stifle that discussion or -- or that review. The 14 only thing I would say is if it -- if it has to do with I 15 think Mr. Baker or somebody mentioned profit, well, I think 16 that's up to the charity to decide. 17 You know, if they want to buy that product 18 from a licensed -- well, it would be a licensed manufacture 19 to a licensed distributor, let the charity decide that. Why 20 would we stifle this product coming in to the Bingo Enabling 21 Act when it's a pure paper -- 22 MR. MARTIN: Competition is always good. 23 MS. KIPLIN: When it's a pure paper product -- 24 MR. FENOGLIO: I don't disagree. 25 MS. KIPLIN: -- and to -- you know, if -- if a 0103 1 manufacturer doesn't want to bring it in or a distributor 2 doesn't want to carry it or a charity doesn't want to buy it, 3 why would we -- why would we prevent other charities from 4 making that decision to the contrary? Like the local VFW 5 does. And that's -- happy to answer any questions. That's 6 all I have to say. 7 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: I agree. 8 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. Mr. Bresnen? 9 MR. BRESNEN: Yeah, I just want to correct one 10 thing. 11 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, sir. 12 MR. BRESNEN: I've not had a chance to talk to 13 the Bingo Interest Group about going from four to six hours 14 and since we're looking for some days where you have four 15 regular occasions, that'd be the whole day and a temporary 16 and be, you know, 30 hours or something. So I need to get 17 some clarification on that. 18 Totally support the carryover. And -- 19 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 20 MR. BRESNEN: -- on the other two, we will 21 raise it with them and get back to you. 22 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 23 MR. MARTIN: On the occasion hours, we're not 24 -- we're not mandating that you have to be open -- 25 MR. BRESNEN: Sure. 0104 1 MR. MARTIN: -- for six hours, it gives you 2 the option of being open for six hours -- 3 MR. BRESNEN: I understand. 4 MR. MARTIN: -- on an occasion here. 5 MR. BRESNEN: I've just got to talk to my 6 client about it. 7 MR. FARRELL: Well, could I ask it -- Michael 8 Farrell. I want to just clarify. Is we're looking at 9 different things. We're looking at one is the added 10 occasions and the other one is extending the hours of 11 occasions. 12 MR. BRESNEN: Yes, sir. 13 MR. FARRELL: Those are two separate -- 14 MR. FARRELL: Yes, sir. 15 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, because adding -- 16 MR. FARRELL: So I just want to -- 17 CHAIR ROGERS: -- occasions gives us -- yeah. 18 MR. FARRELL: -- no, I want to get this 19 straight in my head. 20 CHAIR ROGERS: More money. 21 MR. BRESNEN: Michael, they may actually be 22 two ways of getting to the same place. 23 MR. FARRELL: Yeah, I understand that. I just 24 want to get it straight -- 25 CHAIR ROGERS: Right. 0105 1 MR. FARRELL: -- in my head that there's two 2 separate -- make sure that -- 3 CHAIR ROGERS: Uh-huh (affirmative). 4 MR. BRESNEN: And let -- and ma'am, could I 5 just say one other thing? 6 CHAIR ROGERS: Uh-huh (affirmative). 7 MR. BRESNEN: We are going to have bills 8 introduced that have the items in it that are on our list and 9 I know that Will's going to do the same thing with your list. 10 Y'all are going to meet I guess again in January or sometime 11 shortly after the first of the year, this -- those bills -- 12 if they come back from the drafter, they're going to be 13 filed, we're going to pursue them, but y'all will have 14 another opportunity to say aye or nay on some other things, 15 which we may come back to you with in January. 16 CHAIR ROGERS: And that's what my question 17 was, because you would use -- when you speak to the 18 legislators, you would use the BAC in backing us, so we would 19 have until January or no? 20 MR. BRESNEN: Yes. 21 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 22 MR. BRESNEN: I -- the reason I brought these 23 three items up is because I think the Commission is going to 24 meet again in December? 25 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: December. 0106 1 MR. BRESNEN: December 13th. And so we'd love 2 for you all to report to the Commission on that day that you 3 support these things. I don't know how the Commissioners are 4 going to address these legislative proposals. If they say, 5 you know, we're with y'all, that's great. If they say, you 6 know, that -- okay, thanks for the report, then that's what 7 we'll talk about. 8 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 9 MR. FARRELL: Can I jump a little bit ahead? 10 What I've got here, is we're talking about legislation. 11 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, sir. 12 MR. FARRELL: Is this is what we see affecting 13 bingo and so, our intent is -- at Bingo Division is to 14 provide the BAC on when the changes -- when that list changes 15 -- a list of legislation that we think is affecting Bingo or 16 that we've discussed some along the way. 17 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Uh-huh (affirmative). 18 MR. FARRELL: Anyone else need one? 19 The -- really, there's two bills right now 20 that we see affecting Bingo and it's not directly affecting 21 Bingo, but it's a discussion item that I've been to the TCA, 22 BIG and to the BAC, and all those other letters. One is 23 House Bill 78 by Richard Raymond. It's relating to the local 24 option elections to legalize or prohibit the operation of 25 eight liners. And the other one is HJR18 by -- again by 0107 1 Richard Raymond, proposing a constitutional amendment 2 authorizing local option elections to legalize and prohibit 3 the operation of eight liners. 4 We'll -- my intent is to provide the BAC with 5 the bill number, who submitted it, and then the subject line, 6 so that you have some information. Because I know it's 7 sometimes hard to find out what's been filed. We -- when we 8 get them, we'll send them to you, and that's all I have to 9 say about it. 10 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. So on these two house 11 bills, they don't say whether they're for -- the bill is for 12 it or against it. Just -- 13 MR. FARRELL: You need to look online at the 14 bill itself. 15 MR. BRESNEN: Basically what it would is give 16 the local jurisdiction if it became law, the option to 17 authorize eight liners. It's a constitutional amendment, so 18 they -- 19 MR. FARRELL: Well, and you'll find that some 20 of them are eight lines -- 21 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: So depending on how it's 22 worded. 23 MR. FARRELL: -- long and some of them are 24 several pages long. 25 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 0108 1 MR. FARRELL: That's the way legislation -- 2 but I want to make sure that -- 3 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. 4 MR. FARRELL: -- when we're talking about 5 that, we intend to try to provide that to you. 6 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you so much for providing 7 that. Okay. Board, let's back up just one moment. 8 At this time, in reference to these banded -- 9 if I say it correctly, banded paper tickets -- 10 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Do you want to table that 11 until January? 12 CHAIR ROGERS: Do we want to -- I want to take 13 a vote. I want y'all to vote whether you want to take it now 14 -- you want to vote now to support it, to not support it, or 15 to table it until January until we have further information? 16 MS. HALE: I would like to say one thing about 17 that. Regardless -- 18 CHAIR ROGERS: Please state your name. 19 MS. HALE: Angela Hale. Regardless of whether 20 the manufacturers support it or can make money off it, the 21 point is that it's good for charities and VFW. And so for 22 that reason, I would say you should go ahead and support that 23 today so we can move forward. It is going to be primarily to 24 help veterans and so it's for charities. It's not for our 25 manufacturers to make money or distributors to make money, 0109 1 it's to help charities. 2 CHAIR ROGERS: I'm in complete agreement with 3 you. We're all here for the charities to make more money, 4 but I think we also need to know what we're supporting or not 5 supporting. And I think it just kind of like -- I -- I've 6 never seen one of these before, ever. If it's a great way to 7 make money, I'm okay with that, as long as it doesn't open up 8 for other things, and I don't know that right now. 9 MR. BOURGOYNE: Again, I represent the 10 manufacturers and I think I owe them the opportunity to give 11 their voice on it. 12 CHAIR ROGERS: We'll get right around to you. 13 Mr. Martin, you of course, will support this? 14 MR. MARTIN: Yes. 15 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Tommy? 16 MR. DUNCAN: Yes. 17 CHAIR ROGERS: You support it? 18 MR. DUNCAN: Yes. 19 CHAIR ROGERS: You want to say you support it? 20 Okay. 21 MR. POHL: I support it. 22 CHAIR ROGERS: You support it. 23 MS. GREEN: Yes. 24 MR. BOURGOYNE: I vote to defer. 25 CHAIR ROGERS: And Mr. Emile, you say you 0110 1 defer. 2 MR. BOURGOYNE: Uh-huh (affirmative). 3 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. At this time I -- I 4 would vote to defer it with more information, especially to 5 hear from Texas Charity Advocates what their opinion is on 6 it. But we have four that vote that they support it, so that 7 is what will go in the report. 8 I will also email this to Trace and ask him 9 and show him a photo of these and get his opinion so we can 10 tell the Commissioners what we think -- 11 MR. MARTIN: He's seen those in Duncanville. 12 CHAIR ROGERS: Great. Great. 13 MR. MARTIN: And they were explained to him in 14 Duncanville. 15 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Okay. So y'all 16 understood what Michael was telling us about look online and 17 read these bills? So -- 18 MR. DUNCAN: Are we supporting the other two? 19 CHAIR ROGERS: Are we supporting the carryover 20 of pull-tab bingo? 21 MR. MARTIN: Yes. 22 MR. DUNCAN: Yes. 23 MR. POHL: Yes. 24 MS. GREEN: Yes. 25 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Unanimous. I vote yes, 0111 1 sorry. Occasion hours? 2 MR. DUNCAN: Well, I vote yes on that. 3 MS. GREEN: Yes. Why not. 4 MR. POHL: Absolutely. 5 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes. 6 MR. BOURGOYNE: Abstain, I have no -- 7 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. One abstain. I vote 8 yes. And then on the Bingo Interest Group, their 9 recommendations for three, the net proceeds worker waiting 10 period local option deferred prize tax, how do you support? 11 MR. BOURGOYNE: They actually had a fourth, 12 they had added occasions. 13 CHAIR ROGERS: Oh, added occasions, yes. 14 Sorry. UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Uh-huh 15 (affirmative). 16 CHAIR ROGERS: Do you support all of those, 17 Will? 18 MR. MARTIN: On the added occasions, I support 19 that. 20 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 21 CHAIR ROGERS: Tommy? 22 MR. DUNCAN: I support all four. 23 CHAIR ROGERS: All four? 24 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Uh-huh (affirmative). 25 MR. POHL: I support all four as well. 0112 1 CHAIR ROGERS: Jason. 2 MS. GREEN: Yes. 3 CHAIR ROGERS: Melodye? 4 MS. GREEN: All four. 5 MR. BOURGOYNE: All four. 6 CHAIR ROGERS: Emile? And I also vote all 7 four. Okay. Any further discussion on legislative actions? 8 Okay. Then we will move forward. 9 AGENDA ITEM 13 10 CHAIR ROGERS: Next, number 13, discussion and 11 possible action on the web page for the BAC that I will say 12 looks wonderful that Mr. J.D. did. 13 J.D.: So there's the opening page of the 14 Bingo website, Bingo Advisory Committee, I have your bios up 15 there. Currently, if you hit the legal notices and meetings, 16 it takes you to the Lottery site, we're going to mirror that. 17 Right down there at the bottom, that'll be mirrored on the 18 Bingo side. And it will have everything that's on there. 19 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you. 20 J.D.: Name, minutes, things like that. 21 Interactive forms, I have been making those interactive. 22 There's about two-third of the forms are completed now. 23 Hopefully all of them will be completed by Christmas. 24 The new training videos are up on YouTube. 25 We're going to utilize YouTube as a information avenue. You 0113 1 can go on there and watch the training videos, you don't have 2 to watch the full thing, you aren't going to get credit, but 3 it's just on there for information purposes. 4 We're also planning on putting bookkeeping 5 training videos and a couple other items up there just for 6 training, just for your information, things like that. 7 The training video for chairperson designated 8 agent should be becoming active soon on BSP, so you'll still 9 have to go in there, you'll have to get registered, hit the 10 training, take the training, and you'll get your certificate 11 and it'll be logged into the system. 12 That's about all I have. 13 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you and thank you for 14 your work on that. I personally thought it was very nice. 15 (Applause) 16 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes. Thank you, sir. Do y'all 17 have any comment on that, on the web page? 18 MR. FARRELL: I only have one comment. 19 Michael Farrell. 20 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes. 21 MR. FARRELL: That's your web page, so if 22 there's something that the BAC wants to put on that page, let 23 us know and we'll either do a link to it as the BAC, you 24 know, so we -- if you have something else that you want to 25 put on there, I'm not sure what, but if there's something in 0114 1 particular, let us know and we'll see if we can get it on 2 there. 3 MS. GREEN: Is there a place for public 4 comments? I mean, every time I go to a meeting or I talk to 5 some people, I ask them what it is that the charities want or 6 anything that we may be missing. 7 MR. FARRELL: Well, I -- my recommendation for 8 that would be other than put it on the web page, maybe we 9 could -- might create a place where they can send you an 10 email. 11 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 12 MR. FARRELL: So that they can fill it out or 13 leave an email address for comments. 14 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 15 MR. FARRELL: And send it to somewhere. 16 Because maintaining that on the network would be -- 17 MS. GREEN: No, that would be hard. 18 MR. FARRELL: -- kind of -- kind of hard. But 19 we -- we could take a look at -- J.D., let's take a look at 20 putting a link that if you click on it, it either opens up 21 your email or just an email address saying if you have 22 comments on this, email here, and we'll do it that way. And 23 you'll have to tell us who you want the email to go to. I 24 don't think you have a BAC general email address that goes to 25 everybody, I don't think we have a group. So it'd probably 0115 1 go to Trace or Kim or -- those two folks. 2 CHAIR ROGERS: That's scary. 3 (Laughter) 4 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 5 MR. FARRELL: And will you please stop sending 6 those -- 7 MS. GREEN: I know. I know. 8 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 9 MR. FARRELL: And make sure the soda's cold. 10 MS. GREEN: That's right. 11 CHAIR ROGERS: Right? 12 MS. GREEN: And you're out of toilet paper. 13 That's a big one. 14 (Laughter) 15 CHAIR ROGERS: Is there any public comment on 16 this -- on the web page? No? I think that's a great idea. 17 I think Trace and I would probably argue over which person 18 would receive those emails, but -- 19 MS. GREEN: We should vote right now. He's 20 not here. 21 CHAIR ROGERS: We could -- oh, that's true. 22 MS. GREEN: That's how you become the 23 president of the PTA. 24 CHAIR ROGERS: That would be mean though, 25 wouldn't it? 0116 1 MR. FARRELL: What I would suggest is that if 2 you want it done that way, you provide us with what you want 3 done, how you want it done. You could create an email 4 address that is just to BAC or BAC comments and then that 5 would be forwarded to everybody in the group or bits and 6 pieces of -- 7 CHAIR ROGERS: So you could do -- we could do 8 one email address where if Joe wants to suggest a certain 9 deal, he clicks on that and leaves his email, because now 10 what I would do, I'd be each quarter, each member has -- each 11 meeting the emails are your job, go do them, and Trace sends 12 an email and says okay Melodye, you go -- 13 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 14 CHAIR ROGERS: -- because you could get on 15 that same email. You could look at it, it's the function of 16 a password. 17 MR. FARRELL: The easiest way for us to -- and 18 the quickest way would be to just provide an email address on 19 there. 20 CHAIR ROGERS: Right. 21 MR. FARRELL: So that they can use their 22 whatever email server they want to use. 23 CHAIR ROGERS: Uh-huh (affirmative). 24 MR. FARRELL: Because when you start doing 25 pop-ups it shows up in various locations. And you do it in a 0117 1 secure email on there which is going to require a lot more 2 back-end work than I think we want to do right now. So if 3 you provide the email there, what I'm getting at is, you say 4 okay, this is what we want, you know, CBOD, this is what we 5 want you to do, this is the email address we want you to use. 6 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 7 MR. FARRELL: So we'll post it on there. And 8 that they'll have that email address and -- 9 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 10 MR. FARRELL: -- you can deal with the email 11 how you want, but I want to make sure that we have it done 12 the way you want it to be done using an email address. You 13 may create a BACComments email address. And if that's it, we 14 can likely get it -- we can likely get it to use your other 15 BAC emails to get them to whoever you want. But that way 16 it's not Kim's email address so you don't get all the stuff 17 necessarily, you'll get the ones that come from comments. 18 CHAIR ROGERS: Gotcha. Understand. Thank 19 you. Okay. Any other further comment? 20 MR. FARRELL: Did I mistake that, J.D.? 21 J.D.: No, sir. I'm just saying there's an 22 easy way and a more difficult way and we'll have to research 23 that, but same result. 24 CHAIR ROGERS: We would definitely want to go 25 the easy way. 0118 1 MS. GREEN: Yeah, I was going to say, yeah. 2 CHAIR ROGERS: We definitely do, yeah. Okay. 3 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 4 CHAIR ROGERS: No public comment on that. 5 Okay. AGENDA ITEM 14 6 CHAIR ROGERS: Number 14 is discussion and 7 possible actions on any new items. And I will say I was -- 8 this is where I'll take the first one here. I was emailed in 9 reference to a new item. Mr. Chris Keller who is here in the 10 audience would like to bring up, and what I told him was 11 email me what you want to have looked at. If the BAC wants 12 to, we'll form a workgroup and then we'll take it from there. 13 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 14 CHAIR ROGERS: He states that he would like to 15 look at having the maximum number of cards that a computer 16 can have in it per game, the maximum amount possible at this 17 time is 66 cards. He'd like to be able to add more cards. 18 402.322, which is a Rule, allows us to do this. The savings 19 for charities of course in electronics would be huge. 20 So instead of Suzy buying ten computers, she 21 could have the exact same amount of cards in one computer. I 22 didn't even know this was possible, so this goes beyond my -- 23 Mr. Keller, would you like to explain or let us -- elaborate 24 on this, so the BAC can decide if we'd like to make a 25 workgroup to address it? 0119 1 MR. KELLER: Sure. My name is Chris Keller 2 and the idea is -- that I have is there's no limit on how 3 many computers a person can buy. So I'm thinking well, why 4 limit the amount of cards if you're not going to limit the 5 computers they can buy? 6 The worst thing that's happened to our 7 industry, other operators that are here could attest to this 8 I'm sure. You have a customer that comes in and they might 9 buy 60 computers. 10 CHAIR ROGERS: Uh-huh (affirmative). 11 MS. GREEN: Well, I don't have that luck. 12 MR. KELLER: The next person walks in and they 13 see that right in front of them because they have to sit at 14 the first table so everybody can see them. 15 MS. GREEN: Yeah. 16 MR. KELLER: And they turn around and walk 17 out. 18 MS. GREEN: Yeah. 19 MR. KELLER: Say I'm not going to play there. 20 I can't play against 60 computers. So if we're not going to 21 limit the amount of computer a person can buy, let us put 22 more cards on there. 23 And I want to say this, too, that if this 24 passes and y'all do this committee and everything, there has 25 to be some verbiage agreed to on it to prevent someone from 0120 1 saying okay, instead of 66 cards for $5 on your computer, now 2 you can get 1000 cards for $5. That serves no purpose. That 3 just defeats the whole purpose of lessening the amount of 4 units a charity would have to keep in stock. 5 If someone is opposed to this idea, I want to 6 ask them a question, how does limiting the number of cards on 7 the computer benefit the charities? That's my only question 8 to ask them. So what I don't want to see is three months 9 from now this comes up and I say hey Kim, what happened to 10 that -- this -- well, there was some resistance to it. I 11 want to know what the resistance is. 12 I think we should have a meeting of Bingo 13 operators and say, you know, are you for this or are you 14 against it. And if you're against it, okay, why? If you're 15 for it, that's fine. 16 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 17 MR. KELLER: That's about all I got. 18 CHAIR ROGERS: No, that's fine. 19 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: And I'm going to answer 20 any questions. 21 CHAIR ROGERS: Questions? I'll be right to 22 the public just a moment. Questions from the board or do 23 y'all have any opinions on this? Would you like to look 24 further into it? 25 MR. BOURGOYNE: I'm sure my manufacturers have 0121 1 opinions on it. I just need to ask them. 2 MS. GREEN: Yeah. 3 CHAIR ROGERS: I'm sure that distributors 4 might frown a little on this because for me having to pay for 5 a hundred computers I can now pay for 20, so I -- but I just 6 saved that -- 7 MS. GREEN: Right. 8 CHAIR ROGERS: -- charity a lot of money. 9 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 10 CHAIR ROGERS: Now -- 11 MR. KELLER: Well, I can tell you this much 12 that one distributor, I won't say who it is, actually is in 13 favor of this. 14 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 15 MR. KELLER: Because they see that -- they see 16 the direction that the bingo is going and that if something's 17 not done, it could actually be worse later on. 18 CHAIR ROGERS: Understand. Understand. And I 19 totally would agree that there would have to be wordage 20 written which people who are a lot more educated than myself 21 would need to do. 22 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 23 CHAIR ROGERS: To where people can't just run 24 wild with this and put a thousand cards on one computer. I 25 don't know, you know, it's the beginning. My question to you 0122 1 all is would you like to form a workgroup to talk about this, 2 discuss it and look at it and bring it forward in the 3 research on it? 4 MR. BOURGOYNE: Yes. 5 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes? Is there a BAC member 6 that would like to chair it? 7 MR. DUNCAN: Obviously you. 8 CHAIR ROGERS: That is not the answer I was 9 looking for. 10 MR. BOURGOYNE: That's a great answer though, 11 Tommy. 12 CHAIR ROGERS: Emile? 13 MR. BOURGOYNE: I don't want to chair it, but 14 I will -- 15 CHAIR ROGERS: No? 16 MR. BOURGOYNE: -- will welcome to 17 participate. 18 CHAIR ROGERS: You will be on it? 19 MR. DUNCAN: I will be on it as well. 20 MR. BOURGOYNE: I think -- personally, I think 21 some charity should be in charge of it. 22 MR. DUNCAN: Yeah -- 23 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 24 MR. DUNCAN: -- I think we should go outside 25 for that, too. As well, maybe -- 0123 1 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 2 MR. DUNCAN: -- another distributor so -- 3 MR. BOURGOYNE: I think -- 4 MR. DUNCAN: -- I'm not the only distributor 5 on there. 6 MR. BOURGOYNE: I -- 7 CHAIR ROGERS: Mr. Keller, would you like to - 8 - 9 MR. KELLER: Absolutely. 10 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Wonderful. 11 MR. MOORE: I'll do it. 12 CHAIR ROGERS: And Mr. Moore. You know, the 13 more people -- and we invite public to be on this, because 14 you can bring in a lot more everywhere. Go ahead. Mr. 15 Bunkley, would you like to make a comment? 16 MR. BUNKLEY: Well, I was just going to 17 support the idea of forming a subcommittee, you guys have 18 already done that, so thank you. 19 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 20 MR. BUNKLEY: I'll also volunteer to work on 21 the subcommittee. 22 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, sir. 23 MR. MARTIN: Stick me on there. 24 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, sir. 25 MR. BOURGOYNE: This will be a good one. 0124 1 MR. DUNCAN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 2 CHAIR ROGERS: This will be -- this will be a 3 great one. And this would be an awesome thing -- 4 MR. BOURGOYNE: I'm already nervous. 5 CHAIR ROGERS: -- for -- to happen. Any 6 other public comment on this item at this time? No? 7 MR. BOURGOYNE: I don't have a dog in this 8 race, but the manufacturer does. 9 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank 10 you, Mr. Keller. Is there any other new items that you all 11 would like to bring forward at this time? 12 MR. DUNCAN: Should we address the two members 13 of -- the one resigned and the -- 14 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, I will do that in just one 15 moment. 16 MR. DUNCAN: Okay. That's all -- 17 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, I'm going -- I'm going 18 there with that. 19 MR. MARTIN: I have some information involving 20 -- 21 MS. GREEN: Address what? 22 MR. MARTIN: -- a game room whenever we can 23 slip that in there. 24 CHAIR ROGERS: Slip it in now. 25 MR. MARTIN: Everyone that's ever been to 0125 1 Victoria knows we have game rooms on every corner there and 2 we had a district attorney that refused to do anything about 3 it. I went about two months ago to city council and the 4 mayor and we addressed the problem publicly. City Council 5 came back about three weeks ago with a new -- new thing there 6 and they passed it and had a second and third reading. And 7 where it used to you could come into Victoria, Texas and get 8 a permit to open a game room for $25, it now costs you $800. 9 The second thing is, if you're an individual, 10 you cannot open a game room in Victoria, Texas. You have to 11 be a company or a corporation that is registered with the 12 State of Texas. 13 The third thing is one of those officers on 14 that registered company or corporation has to come to 15 Victoria and the person that they're going to lease or rent a 16 building from also has to come to Victoria and they have to 17 sit down with the police chief and he will tell them that if 18 there is any illegal gambling that goes on in that game room, 19 that you are the two that I'm coming after. So we're 20 starting to see them fold up pretty quick. 21 And they also have in -- in that -- in that 22 bill or opinion there, that the police chief retains the 23 right to at any time, if he suspects there's any illegal 24 gambling going on in that game room, without any hard 25 evidence or movies or having to send police officers in 0126 1 there, he can go there and close them on his word 2 immediately. 3 So we're starting to see them go poof. 4 MS. GREEN: That's great. 5 CHAIR ROGERS: Good. 6 MS. GREEN: That's a big difference. 7 CHAIR ROGERS: Any comment? Public comment? 8 MR. MARTIN: Good job. 9 MS. GREEN: Yeah. 10 MR. KELLER: How did you get that done now? 11 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, Mr. Keller. 12 MR. MARTIN: I went -- I went to the -- I -- I 13 can get a copy of it and email it to you, anybody that wants 14 it. I went to a City Council meeting and we told them about 15 these illegal game rooms are fronts for laundering of drug 16 money, they're fronts for prostitution, they're fronts for 17 human trafficking, we had people come down from Dallas and 18 testified about it, and so, for public safety reasons, we 19 wanted them gone from Victoria. 20 We didn't bring up the -- we didn't bring 21 anything about it's killing bingo, we told them this is -- 22 this is what's happening and believe it or not, the night 23 before they -- the City Council voted on it, they had a thing 24 on television where these two guys were arrested for armed 25 robbery. One of them was arrested at his home, and the other 0127 1 one was arrested at Mr. Lucky's game room. So it was a 2 godsend. 3 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: We did that in Bexar 4 County because they were opening everywhere down there again 5 and the problem is, these operators, they tell their 6 customers, oh, we're legal, what we're doing is legal, 7 because the City gave us a stamp. And it's for charity or 8 you have -- put the money in the machine and it gives you a 9 card to go put it into the eight-liner, but -- 10 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: The sweepstakes. 11 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: We have -- one of our -- 12 it's so bad in Bexar County, one of our employees went to one 13 and she said they're regular slot machines. It's just -- no 14 more eight-liner, it was a slot machine. 15 CHAIR ROGERS: So hence, why everyone needs to 16 go online and look at these bills and -- 17 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 18 CHAIR ROGERS: -- keep pushing for this. 19 Thank you for bringing that up. 20 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: We could -- if we could 21 put y'all's in in Bexar County, that'd be great for 22 everybody. 23 CHAIR ROGERS: Exactly. 24 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 25 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 0128 1 MR. MARTIN: You want to email me and let me 2 have your email address, I will go online and get a copy of 3 that from the City of Victoria -- 4 CHAIR ROGERS: Any other comment? 5 MR. MARTIN: -- and I'll email it to you. 6 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. 7 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: All right. 8 CHAIR ROGERS: We're getting -- we've pushed 9 our limit -- 10 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 11 CHAIR ROGERS: -- for the lunch hour here. I 12 need -- I want to bring up one more new item and that is I 13 think that the BAC needs to adhere to some type of 14 attendance. This is a volunteer position. We get it, we all 15 have jobs, we're all busy, we all have audits and desk 16 reviews and everything from the Lottery, we're running bingo 17 halls, we're doing everything that we do, if you don't want 18 to do it and you don't want to attend, my personal opinion is 19 you need to step aside and let someone else. 20 I understand that we had numerous applications 21 to be on the BAC and we want good people that want to be here 22 and things of that nature. I think we used to, and we don't 23 have to do the same thing, but I would like to take a vote of 24 something or get some opinions from y'all. We used to do if 25 you missed two meetings in a row that you were asked to step 0129 1 down and let someone else come on. 2 I don't know if staff would support this or 3 not. I know this is our board, so what we say we'll -- we 4 can go to staff and ask, but now of course, Trace is sick, so 5 that's completely understandable. A death in the family, 6 anything of that nature I'm not speaking of that. I'm 7 talking about you just don't show up. 8 I -- I leave my house at 5:00 in the morning 9 to get here because I want to be here and I want to help and 10 I want to give my input. So yes, sir. 11 MR. VANCE: The rule says that the Commission 12 may remove a member at any time without cause. So if -- I 13 guess the way you would do this is as a Committee recommend 14 to the Commission that somebody be removed. 15 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, sir. 16 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Do we need to make a 17 motion to make a -- for a rule? 18 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, sir, we do. And I would 19 like to see us ask. We have one individual -- okay. So we 20 have Brian Malone, he has resigned. 21 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Yes. 22 CHAIR ROGERS: So I guess I will in my notes 23 ask the Commission to put another person in his place; is 24 that what we would do? 25 MR. VANCE: Yes. 0130 1 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. We have one lady, Laveda 2 Brown, who has not shown up at our first meeting the nor the 3 second. She has responded to a couple emails that we've all 4 been talking about, but I would like to ask her if she wants 5 to be on the board. If not, then I -- I would move that we 6 ask the Commissioners to fill her position with someone else 7 who wants to show up, who wants to help, and be on these 8 workgroups, because it's a lot of work. 9 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Uh-huh (affirmative). 10 CHAIR ROGERS: Would you support that? 11 MR. MARTIN: Yeah. I'll make a motion that if 12 you have two unexcused absences that your chair will be 13 filled by someone else. 14 MR. POHL: Second. 15 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Thank you. Jason 16 seconds it. And it would be that we would ask the 17 Commissioners to fill their seat, so I will -- 18 MR. BOURGOYNE: And we would be the party 19 granting the excuse; absence? You used the word excused. 20 CHAIR ROGERS: Say that one more time. 21 MR. BOURGOYNE: He used the word two unexcused 22 absences. We would be the party deciding whether or not the 23 absence was unexcused. 24 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: That would be us. 25 CHAIR ROGERS: I think that would fall on 0131 1 Trace. 2 MR. MARTIN: Right. 3 CHAIR ROGERS: And then if he would like to 4 ask us our opinion, but I -- because I think he could speak 5 to them and we're all adults. And yeah. Yes, sir, Mr. 6 Bresnen? 7 MR. BRESNEN: Was it two consecutive meetings 8 or just two meetings? 9 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Two consecutive. 10 CHAIR ROGERS: I would say consecutive. 11 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Consecutive. 12 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you for that word, 13 consecutive. 14 MR. BRESNEN: Sure. 15 CHAIR ROGERS: And that passed. Okay. Okay. 16 Is there any other public comment at this 17 time? No? I think this was a fabulous meeting. The 18 Commissioners do meet, Michael, December 13th; is that 19 correct? 20 MR. FARRELL: 13th or -- 13th. I think it's 21 the Thursday; 13th. 22 CHAIR ROGERS: 13th. December 13th I will 23 have the -- the synopsis of our meeting to present to them. 24 Thank everyone so much for coming and thank you. 25 We do need to discuss our next meeting. Are 0132 1 we looking at January? Will the Commissioners meet in 2 February? They meet every other month or -- 3 MR. FARRELL: They meet every other month. 4 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. So if we meet in 5 January, then we're a month before theirs? 6 MR. FARRELL: Right. 7 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. January 10th, January 8 17th, tentatively? 9 MS. GREEN: Either one for me. 10 CHAIR ROGERS: 10th would be better for you. 11 Melodye? 12 MS. GREEN: The 10th -- whatever works for 13 somebody else. 14 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. Emile? 15 MR. BOURGOYNE: Okay with you. 16 MS. GREEN: January 10th. 17 CHAIR ROGERS: Michael, do you have a -- 18 MR. FARRELL: Let's see, meeting the 10th is 19 fine, but the 7th of February is the next Commission meeting. 20 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. So that would give me 21 plenty of time. Jason, are you okay with the 10th? 22 MR. POHL: Yes, ma'am. 23 CHAIR ROGERS: Okay. So -- 24 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Same time. 25 CHAIR ROGERS: -- January 10th at 10:00 a.m. 0133 1 will be the tentative time. 2 MS. GREEN: It's a Thursday. 3 CHAIR ROGERS: For the next BAC meeting. 4 MS. GREEN: A Thursday? 5 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes. It is a Thursday. 6 UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Oh, the 10th is a 7 Thursday? 8 MS. GREEN: Uh-huh (affirmative). 9 CHAIR ROGERS: January 10th, yes. 10 MS. GREEN: And Kim? 11 CHAIR ROGERS: Yes, ma'am. 12 MS. GREEN: Ask them to kind of look at the -- 13 you know, the Bingo Interest Group had several things on 14 their list. If we could just kind of look through those 15 before the next meeting, because we do need to formalize what 16 we're going to spend our money on to go to the legislature. 17 CHAIR ROGERS: Got it. 18 MS. GREEN: Because there's some great things 19 on there, you know what I mean? 20 AGENDA ITEM XVI 21 CHAIR ROGERS: Thank you, everyone, for 22 coming. This meeting is adjourned. 23 (Meeting adjourned at 12:12 p.m.) 24 25 0134 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 STATE OF TEXAS ) 3 COUNTY OF HARRIS ) 4 I, Kimberly C. McCright, Certified Vendor and 5 Notary in and for the State of Texas, do hereby certify that 6 the above-mentioned matter occurred as hereinbefore set out. 7 I FURTHER CERTIFY THAT the proceedings of such were 8 reported by me or under my supervision, later reduced to 9 typewritten form under my supervision and control and that 10 the foregoing pages are a full, true and correct 11 transcription of the original notes. 12 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and 13 seal this 16th day of November, 2018. 14 15 /s/ Kimberly C. McCright Kimberly C. McCright 16 Certified Vendor and Notary Public 17 Verbatim Reporting & Transcription, LLC 1322 Space Park Drive, Suite C165 18 Houston, Texas 77058 281.724.8600 19 20 21 22 23 24 25